Given all the many people who will come and go from this community shelter — I think I heard the average stay is 4 days — It will be interesting to see how traffic/parking will work. 10 bedrooms times 4 days is almost 80 people a week. Each of these 80 will have visitors, luggage, etc. Also, the community shelter will have numerous delivery and supply trucks, as well as garbage trucks. Seems like we should expect a traffic melee. It’s hard for me to see how anyone could think this is a good thing.
Oldtimer: I believe that you have expressed the situation very well. This is how it works, and it does require the cooperation of those who should be putting the town’s best interest first. That includes municipal employees in key departments, Grovers who are part of developers’ schemes, the Homeowners Association, and local politicians. Add to the sauce the apathy of the public.
On Blogfinger we will continue to inform those who care as to what is happening at the North End, and that effort may have some impact. There is still hope that the steamroller might be thwarted, especially as the process goes through a variety of approvals such as DEP.
Recently the density of the project was cut back, potentially causing a loss of millions of dollars for the re-developers. It was portrayed as a kind gesture to the town, but I don’t believe that is the reason. Don’t forget, the 2008 NERP is still in effect. All changes to that must be processed legally, unless more loopholes are discovered.
Similarly the CMA wants to drop out as a re-developer. Why is that? And why are all the individuals in WAVE still hiding behind the curtain? Are they embarrassed or what?
Maybe the truth of it all will be revealed, but maybe that is just wishful thinking.
JB: I do not believe there was “error” in a technical sense. I think that Mary’s Place worked the system much in the same way a developer like Toll Brothers does. In each case, they buy land zoned for one purpose — that is the purpose intended by the citizens of the town — and then they find a technical end run to bust the zoning so they can run roughshod over the town. It’s technically legal, but morally bankrupt. The zoning of OG does not allow — and the citizens did not want — a rooming house built, yet, using a technicality of state law, Mary’s Place found a way to build one anyway. I think that says a lot about this establishment and their lack of respect for OG.
Just because something is “legal” doesn’t make it right. And just because Mary’s Place is a charity doesn’t make it worthy of busting our zoning.
Old Timer, the next time you believe there is an error in a decision by the building department, you can file an appeal to the Board of Adjustment 40:55D-70. It doesn’t cost any money, and you don’t need a lawyer.
Paul, I agree with you. The intent of the Master Plan and zoning ordinance is for two traditional single family-Victorian houses. All of OG should be single-family houses, but as an exception, Mary’s Place is permitted as a hospital, nursing home, school, or any other use we may all need someday.
I have also experienced the same disrespect at the building department that you and most Ocean Grove residents have experienced when dealing with the Building Dept on any matter.
Nevertheless Jack, they were unable to build that big building and combine those two lots without a special zoning designation as a “community shelter,” and that approval and the process that went into it is worrisome.
What do you think the officials who developed the historic district zoning and the Master Plan had in mind for those two lots? Do you think they wanted single family Victorian houses, a Greek Temple, a frat house, a giant one family with 10 bedrooms, or the Windsor Castle? The fact that cancer patients are involved at Mary’s Place is irrelevant to the discussion of zoning.
On Blogfinger our entire coverage of Mary’s Place was about zoning. Before the Mary’s Place zoning issue appeared, for six years, we never showed any interest in what they were doing at MP except one time to promote a fund raiser.
In the end, we signed off on the subject. See link below.
I support Mary’s Place.
There was no ‘Zoning Busting’ . Mary’s Place is permitted as a single family house.
A single -family, is any group of people living as a family, NOT just a man and his wife with 2.6 children. It includes a group of. College students, 2 mommys and a baby in a 3 room apartment, a 279 room Windsor Castle, or a group of cancer patients like Mary’s Place. It also complies with the OGCMA’S Mission Statement.
H. Dory is wrong. Most people see this organization for what it is: a zoning busting, delivery truck and garbage generating, itinerant attracting, HCP-violating, group home that has no business being in OG.
Unfortunately, Mary’s Place manipulated the system via layers and developer-influence and we’ve got what we’ve got. There was much written on this subject in previous blog entries with the vast majority being in opposition to this establishment. Thus, the absence of commentary now is really reflection of fatigue and reluctant acceptance of this unfortunate establishment.
While I think that folks in OG are sympathetic to the stated mission of Mary’s Place (helping cancer patients), their underhanded dealings and lack of respect for the community of OG have undermined any good will they might have had.
Given all the many people who will come and go from this community shelter — I think I heard the average stay is 4 days — It will be interesting to see how traffic/parking will work. 10 bedrooms times 4 days is almost 80 people a week. Each of these 80 will have visitors, luggage, etc. Also, the community shelter will have numerous delivery and supply trucks, as well as garbage trucks. Seems like we should expect a traffic melee. It’s hard for me to see how anyone could think this is a good thing.
Oldtimer: I believe that you have expressed the situation very well. This is how it works, and it does require the cooperation of those who should be putting the town’s best interest first. That includes municipal employees in key departments, Grovers who are part of developers’ schemes, the Homeowners Association, and local politicians. Add to the sauce the apathy of the public.
On Blogfinger we will continue to inform those who care as to what is happening at the North End, and that effort may have some impact. There is still hope that the steamroller might be thwarted, especially as the process goes through a variety of approvals such as DEP.
Recently the density of the project was cut back, potentially causing a loss of millions of dollars for the re-developers. It was portrayed as a kind gesture to the town, but I don’t believe that is the reason. Don’t forget, the 2008 NERP is still in effect. All changes to that must be processed legally, unless more loopholes are discovered.
Similarly the CMA wants to drop out as a re-developer. Why is that? And why are all the individuals in WAVE still hiding behind the curtain? Are they embarrassed or what?
Maybe the truth of it all will be revealed, but maybe that is just wishful thinking.
—-Paul
JB: I do not believe there was “error” in a technical sense. I think that Mary’s Place worked the system much in the same way a developer like Toll Brothers does. In each case, they buy land zoned for one purpose — that is the purpose intended by the citizens of the town — and then they find a technical end run to bust the zoning so they can run roughshod over the town. It’s technically legal, but morally bankrupt. The zoning of OG does not allow — and the citizens did not want — a rooming house built, yet, using a technicality of state law, Mary’s Place found a way to build one anyway. I think that says a lot about this establishment and their lack of respect for OG.
Just because something is “legal” doesn’t make it right. And just because Mary’s Place is a charity doesn’t make it worthy of busting our zoning.
Old Timer, the next time you believe there is an error in a decision by the building department, you can file an appeal to the Board of Adjustment 40:55D-70. It doesn’t cost any money, and you don’t need a lawyer.
Paul, I agree with you. The intent of the Master Plan and zoning ordinance is for two traditional single family-Victorian houses. All of OG should be single-family houses, but as an exception, Mary’s Place is permitted as a hospital, nursing home, school, or any other use we may all need someday.
I have also experienced the same disrespect at the building department that you and most Ocean Grove residents have experienced when dealing with the Building Dept on any matter.
Nevertheless Jack, they were unable to build that big building and combine those two lots without a special zoning designation as a “community shelter,” and that approval and the process that went into it is worrisome.
What do you think the officials who developed the historic district zoning and the Master Plan had in mind for those two lots? Do you think they wanted single family Victorian houses, a Greek Temple, a frat house, a giant one family with 10 bedrooms, or the Windsor Castle? The fact that cancer patients are involved at Mary’s Place is irrelevant to the discussion of zoning.
On Blogfinger our entire coverage of Mary’s Place was about zoning. Before the Mary’s Place zoning issue appeared, for six years, we never showed any interest in what they were doing at MP except one time to promote a fund raiser.
In the end, we signed off on the subject. See link below.
—–Paul
Link to 2014 articles about Mary’s Place:
http://blogfinger.net/2014/09/28/resolving-some-issues-a-chat-with-michelle-gannon-pres-and-maria-mckeon-vice-pres-of-marys-place/
http://blogfinger.net/2014/09/15/marys-place-receives-zoning-permission-to-build-9000-square-foot-facility-for-women-on-two-lots-at-24-main-avenue/
I support Mary’s Place.
There was no ‘Zoning Busting’ . Mary’s Place is permitted as a single family house.
A single -family, is any group of people living as a family, NOT just a man and his wife with 2.6 children. It includes a group of. College students, 2 mommys and a baby in a 3 room apartment, a 279 room Windsor Castle, or a group of cancer patients like Mary’s Place. It also complies with the OGCMA’S Mission Statement.
H. Dory is wrong. Most people see this organization for what it is: a zoning busting, delivery truck and garbage generating, itinerant attracting, HCP-violating, group home that has no business being in OG.
Unfortunately, Mary’s Place manipulated the system via layers and developer-influence and we’ve got what we’ve got. There was much written on this subject in previous blog entries with the vast majority being in opposition to this establishment. Thus, the absence of commentary now is really reflection of fatigue and reluctant acceptance of this unfortunate establishment.
While I think that folks in OG are sympathetic to the stated mission of Mary’s Place (helping cancer patients), their underhanded dealings and lack of respect for the community of OG have undermined any good will they might have had.
Interesting that there are no comments after a number of days. I guess everything is hunky dory with this establishment and what it will be.