These Blogfinger photos are from Oct. 28, 2014 in front of the Ocean Grove Post Office. Note the size of the “loading zone.” ©
By Paul Goldfinger, Editor @Blogfinger
A question arose here recently regarding access to the OG post office, among other postal issues. Many of us read the sign in front of the post office (“loading drop off zone”) and felt that we could pull in to drop off a letter or package at the post office.
Joe commented: “Just so you know, that loading zone is the only place large trucks have to drop off for the various restaurants and stores on Main without impeding traffic. I’ve seen the cops ticket people who park there, and their pleas of going into the post office fall on indifferent ears.” Joe didn’t want his neighbors to get ticketed.
I went back to check the lay of the land and the wording of the sign.
Then I contacted the Traffic Officer, NTPD, who was unsure of the answer to the inquiry. He said that he had not heard of ticketing cars there. He got back to us with this response:
“I checked with the Township. That was put there for the bus stop when they are loading and unloading. No one else is allowed to park there. ”
I don’t see the word “bus” on any of the signs shown above, and it seems easy to conclude that the signs refer to the post office. And how about those trucks that Joe describes? Have they been ticketed also? Given the ambiguity of the signage, those citizens should have been given a pass by the police
Why not give the citizens two or three diagonal spaces for post office drop offs? There is room. Buses don’t need that much space. They rarely come into town. In neighboring towns, the bus stops are marked with yellow curbs only and they are not very big. Today I saw some cars parked in Asbury bus stops.
In Ocean Township, there is a small post office on a narrow congested street with no parking (sort of like our Main Avenue). But that town has set aside 4 spaces that permit 15 minute parking for the post office.
Fairmont Avenue post office in Ocean Twp. 4 spaces reserved for patrons—15 minute parking. Blogfinger photo click to read the sign.
Why is it that whenever an idea about parking is suggested by Ocean Grove taxpayers as they seek some relief, they are consistently thrown under the bus and ignored by the Township?
Is this a trivial matter? No. Small victories give rise to big victories.
It’s time for the Township to favor the wishes of the people regarding parking, as opposed to paying special attention to others such as tourists or merchants . Remember the design of the Main Avenue downtown which took away many parking spaces to allow expansion of outdoor dining?
And what do we have here now—helping out the bus company to the detriment of the public?
BLIND BOYS OF ALABAMA with HANK WILLIAMS JUNIOR
Paul Goldfinger, Editor @Blogfinger
The only thing I find wrong about this discussion on this is, has anyone on here considered that the post office is a Federal Government Building and not just a regular local business, if you check info on obstruction of parking for Federal buildings. The Township may have violated Federal Law.
Maybe this comment is not relevant to parking directly but…what do we actually get out of being part of Neptune Township? What did OG gain by joining it?
What would be the benefits of secession?
Exgrover. We await the truth about this situation. Maybe the signage was done wrong. I should know by tomorrow. —Paul @Blogfinger
Interesting that a resident (Joe) finds the ordinance, posts it, and contradicts the township official.
Speaks volumes
Thanks Joe. I will contact the traffic officer again to explain the discrepancy——he said the area was only for buses.
Paul
Ok, so a simple search of the township website reveals the ordinance
“7-15 LOADING ZONES.
The locations described are hereby designated as Loading Zones. No person shall park a vehicle in said location during the times indicated other than for the loading or unloading of goods and materials. (Ord. No. 1000 A. VI, Sched. XI; Ord. No. 1264 § 1; Ord. No. 1575 § 1; Ord. No. 04-01 § 3; Ord. No. 07-50 § 2; Ord. No. 10-39 § 2; Ord. No. 12-25)
Main Avenue
North
From the northeast intersection of Main Avenue and Pilgrim Pathway extending eastward 65 feet to a point on the north side of Main Avenue.”
So this seems to fall more in line with my original belief that that area is for tractor trailers and other large trucks to unload products and wares for the local businesses so double parking does not occur.
However, i know most people would rather not be personally inconvenienced, so they park there, forcing these trucks to double park on Main in the summer and cause traffic backup for everyone else.
Exgrover: You win. The brew turns toxic when apathy is prevalent. You will get an email about your prize.
apathy
Thank you MaryLou, but that is not the A word which I’m looking for which is especially toxic for the practice of democracy in American towns. I ran into it full blast when I was part of a community effort to save a hospital in Morris County at the end of the last century when hospital closures were rampant. But, your A word “assume” is actually closely related to my A word. Try again—Paul
I’ll take a stab at the “A” word….”Assume”. You know what happens when we assume…
Exgrover: No,no,no….That was directed to those who sometimes think that I am causing trouble. There are personal attacks that sometimes come my way, but I reject them. As for Mary Beth Jahn, I really appreciate all the times in the past that she jumped into the pot with me and people like you to help create vibrant discussions. Unfortunately she stopped, and the others never did except for Committeeman Eric Houghtaling who has remained helpful to Blogfinger in his own way. Although I have always been hopeful that our elected officials would join in, I can understand why they would not.
Thanks again Exman (or I can only hope–Exwoman,) Paul
Paul,
You said “…But I don’t apologize for “stirring a pot” as Committeewoman Jahn once accused me of doing…”
I hope that wasn’t directed at me, I love when you or anyone stirs the pot, isn’t that what a democracy allows? If questions aren’t raised then Neptune would step all over OG. As for Committeewoman Jahn, typical Neptune township politician attitude – and for her accusation…. well… what gives her the moral authority to stifle questions of residents and a resourceful and well respected blog.
It’s like, ok Paul or anyone else – be a good boy now and go sit in that corner and be quiet, we know best, don’t raise uncomfortable questions.
Your blog is wonderful and chocked full of stories, music, photos, and every now and then issues that others might or might not have noticed, and of course you should not write the township, it’s not your job. Please forgive me if you thought that, The letter should be sent by an organization such as the homeowner’s association.
Exgrover: Thank you for your comment and suggestions. You recommend that “a written request be made about the loading zone.” But I hope you were not suggesting an assignment for Blogfinger, because we raise issues here and we like to be a catalyst and to provide a forum for discussion, but we do not have a game plan for this matter, because, at this point, we expect that a citizen activist/reporter will get involved and move the ball up the field.
Or we would hope (a usually futile wish) that an organization in town that is supposed to look after the citizens’ interests (e.g. the Home Groaners Assoc.—–what ever happened to their parking committee?) or one of our elected officials who is supposed to represent us would then adopt the issue and resolve it—–or, at least, to comment here. In other words, democracy in action. (or inaction, as the case may be.)
The Traffic Officer was answering my questions about what the signs mean, and we were communicating by phone. When he said that only buses can park in that “loading zone,” it was apparent that the signs were inadequate and that the “loads” they were referring to were actually bus passengers. Are we getting ready for the day when the bus fares will be based on how much the passengers weigh?
Have we unearthed, as you put it, some “vagueness and ambiguity” in local government? You betcha. But I don’t apologize for “stirring a pot” as Committeewoman Jahn once accused me of doing. Instead it is an exercise in thinking out of the box and stirring our citizens from the evils of the A word. (A prize at Seasons General Store for the first person who tells us what the A word is.)—Paul
Paul
Neptune Township government is and always has been about ambiguity, purposeful ambiguity. Very difficult to get a straight answer from them.
Your quote:
“… Then I contacted the Traffic Officer, NTPD, who was unsure of the answer to the inquiry. He said that he had not heard of ticketing cars there. He got back to us with this response: “I checked with the Township. That was put there for the bus stop when they are loading and unloading. No one else is allowed to park there. “
Notice the Traffic Officer didn’t cite the citation number or code, and more importantly he answered verbally. He checked with the township but didn’t say who – wow who was that higher authority? that’s pretty broad isn’t it. No accountability there… it’s a movable target but hey… that’s Neptune for you.
I suggest that a written request be made about the loading zone in front of the post office – that would include but not limited to:
* Request the code or citation number including the definition of a loading zone that the township is using for legal purposes
* Is it a passenger loading zone, or only for buses and cabs, is it a commercial loading zone.
* Does Ocean Grove have special definitions for loading zones that differ from Neptune.
I personally couldn’t find any definitions for a loading zone in regards to Neptune codes on the internet or the township website.
I did find one for New Brunswick Parking Authority
http://www.njnbpa.org/parking-info/parking-zones/
Loading Zones:
“These signs only permit vehicles with commercial tags or a valid New Brunswick Loading Zone Pass to stop and load or unload cargo. They may remain for the specified permit time allotment. Passenger vehicles are prohibited from parking in these zones because they force vehicles with cargo to double park or park in prohibited areas.”
Pretty specific – huh? as oppose to the vagueness and ambiguity of Neptune.
.
Paul, My concern is that the bus can’t posture to parallel park because it doesn’t have enough room to go in head-first. As for the police watching for abusers, I would suggest that would almost require a cruiser to be on constant surveillance. There is a legal procedure for monitoring this kind of abuse such as registering time discovered and waiting at least 15 minutes to ticket. Personally, this seems to not be a good use of police. I would rather see them cruise our town and show a presence to potential intruders.
We do love Ocean Grove. Thanks for this forum!
I was misinformed about the bus schedule, but that frequency doesn’t change the question which is whether there is enough room for a couple of parking spots for post office patrons. Of course the buses need a proper space to get in and out.
All this talk about parking a bus should be fascinating to Grovers who tend to be experts at parallel parking, but we all know that parallel parking at a corner is much easier than at the middle of a block.
Consider this: A corner bus stop on busy Main Street in Asbury Park, marked with a yellow curb, is about 30 feet long as measured along the curb. The loading zone in question in front of the post office in OG is also at a corner, but it is about 43 feet long. An OG parking space, head on downtown, takes up about 5 feet along the curb.
So, if the Asbury Parkians can park a bus comfortably on their Main Street with 30 feet to work with, then surely we can provide bus parking and two car spaces using our 43 feet and still have a few feet left over compared to Asbury.
At this rate, Blogfinger could be eligible for a journalism award for the longest article about bus parking since the invention of the printing press when they were probably discussing horse carriage parking.
–Paul
Perhaps when you wrote that buses “rarely come into town,” you were thinking of tour buses. The NY/Shore Points commuter bus stops at that spot eighteen times every weekday and nine times every Sat. and Sun. The bus must have a designated place to pull out of traffic because often the bus will idle for several minutes to assure the correct departure time.
PD: There are many areas in this town where drivers might have to stop, maneuver, etc. It’s not a tragedy, and perhaps you should add up the total minutes that buses spend at that location each day before you conclude that the bus issues you describe are a big deal.
I am not opposed to buses stopping there and I agree that illegal car parking in that location might cause a problem. But legal post office parking for, let’s say, 2 spaces at the eastern edge of the zone would not pose a problem for the buses.
There are traffic experts who can assess the situation, but, for now, we are just offering ideas to consider rather than to be ignored. —-Paul
Lee: First of all, trucks are currently banned in that parking area. Only buses can legally park there. Trucks often double park on Main Ave, and there are no “traffic jams.”
In addition, there would be room for buses even if 2 or 3 diagonal car spaces are created, so I was not suggesting that buses should not stop there. That large hatched area could accommodate more than one use.
As for policing the abusers, that would be police business. —Paul
If you check the Academy Coastline Express (weekday) bus schedule for Ocean Grove, the morning hours to Port Authority are hourly from 6:55 to 9:55. The return schedule contains 9 stops from 3:37 pm to 8:57 pm.
Plus, I have often observed the Academy bus, of necessity, parked in the traffic lane because cars are parked in its marked zone. Of course, that means cars behind that bus must stop, maneuver to the left, look around the bus for oncoming traffic in the opposite lane, and then drive, to the left, around the bus.
Paul, These solutions pose a problem in our high season. Contemplate for a second the traffic jams that will occur if large trucks and buses can’t get in or out of those spaces easily. Some companies could refuse to deliver without easy access. Perish the thought that the bus ceases to pass through OG. There is a price for that loss. And, who is going to police the abusers of three or four 15-minute parking spaces?
I can see where some would find fault here, but it strikes me that this has been thought through.