What started as a discussion about snow emergency parking rules in the Grove has evolved into a global parking issues dialogue. Talk about hot buttons! In November, 2011, we brought up the subject of parking meters again. It generated an outpouring of comments along with an accusation by a Neptune Committeeperson who said that I was “stirring the pot.” I always thought that stirring a pot resulted in better soup, but not that time.
Actually, the comments that resulted were very interesting, and you should read them again before commenting now. You should also review the parking comments in posts below. Let’s now use this site for more.
The lines of conversations then and now have generally covered the following topics:
- Let’s get nervous now about a future which is yet to come: Will new condo developers be required to provide parking? This conversation focused mostly on the North End situation.
- Let’s worry about OG homeowners who crave a parking space of their own and who are chronically suffering due to “the parking deficiency syndrome,” which causes angry outbursts, motion sickness, and flights of ideas.
- RSIS standards which either are good for the Grove or bad for the Grove and which, whenever they are mentioned, are promptly ignored by everybody because nobody knows what they are.
- And a variety of assorted themes like building a parking garage about one mile out of town, making a million bucks like AP by installing meters, threats of mass suicide by those who hate parking meters, listen to Ken who says that we all need to put up or shut up, and listen to Mary Beth who once lived in town and once found a parking space.
- Then there’s Blogfinger who will let Gosh say the same thing over and over, but we believe in free speech and we think that the town Committee needs to do SOMETHING about parking on behalf of the voters and taxpayers and generally good folks in the Grove.
- And finally we have “Oldtimer” (we think it is a pseudonym, but it might actually be a nym.) Today he said, “Make the North End permit only, two permits per household max, and price at $100 per six months ($200 per year). Strict towing of violaters. That would solve the problem. If there was adeqaute, reliable parking for residents, $200 per year would be a bargin.”—-
—-What can I say? OK commenters, let’s all jump on “Oldtimer” and beat the cr*p out of him or we can nominate him to the Neptune Township Committee. It’s your call.
Paul Goldfinger, editor @Blogfinger EDITOR’S NOTE (2/22/13). The discussion continues, so I will keep this post accessible near the top until the dialogue simmers down.
And our theme song for all of you out there who are feeling jolly rotten about parking—-from Spamalot:
I can see an auction as a way to maximize revenue.
$10 would be ok too! Way I see it, beach front parking is a limited commodity. Let’s see how much some would pay for those angled spots, for a day? A season?
Sue…It has been made known in the past that OG’s current angled parking would not be approved in the present. Asking for more could backfire.
Joe….Possibly the Traffic Officer was using the total of residences which would consider each individual condo in the count. I will ask someone involved in that study for more info. And a buck or two? How about $10 and up for ocean front spaces.
Would it be possible to change the parking spaces near the beginning of Main Avenue to head on parking from parallel? Won’t add a whole bunch, maybe another 40 parking spaces total for both sides, and would only need to be striped — no other constructon? Another suggestion perhaps to homeowners that have driveways, to perhaps start using them? Oftentimes never see any cars parked in them.
I don’t see how that’s possible, considering there are whole blocks with no cars or maybe one or two right now
Ogrover….Years back, a parking study for Ocean Grove had a count of spaces estimated by Neptune Police. Sorry that I cannot remember how many but I do recall there were not enough to provide even one per homeowner
OK, a question or three. Does anyone have an idea of how many parking spaces are in the Grove? A person can count the lined and marked spaces easily enough, but I would assume the rest would be an approximate number or an estimate. Was there a count taken during the RSIS review? What is the ratio of spaces to population both year round and seasonal?
If your going to make it 2 hour parking, why not make a buck or two while we are at it?
Joe, Restricted and/or permit parking is possible without meters.
It’s sort of the same thing with ‘warehoused’ vehicles. People who winter in other places and leave a second or perhaps third car on the street for months on end. During snow emergencies they interfere with plowing, they block the occasional street sweeping efforts and are allowed to let trash and leaves accumulated under and around them, yet are never towed or ticketed. The few parking regulations the town has should be enforced more vigorously. Many towns have their own,’unique’ parking regulations, why not ‘Unique’ Ocean Grove!
There was a car parked in front of our house for 6 months right after we bought our house. It belonged to guy across the street. Transmission was shot and after a while it developed a flat tire and garbage accumulated under it. Police told me it had to be there over 6 months or have expired registration. I did a happy dance the day it was towed away. The owner finally gave up hope of repairing it.
If a car is registered and legally parked the is nothing the cops can do. There is a procedure for removing abandoned vehicles but it is involved. The vehicle must show signs like flat tires or damage
If your suggesting time restricted parking, then why not meters
There was a car parked next to my house for a prolonged period. Finally I called the police. They came over and verified that the car was duly registered and wasn’t stolen. Once they checked that, they were satisfied and they left. Eventually the owner showed up and moved the vehicle.
I believe there is a law that a car or truck cannot be parked in the same spot without being moved for a certain period of time. Call the police when it happens, and they will ticket it. They have to be notified…they don’t really do anything unless they know about it and you may have to stay on it. Good luck!!
Parking enforcement of illegally parked vehicles? Dream on. It may be time for for some “legally parked” vehicles to get Neptune to act. I suggest a “reductio ad absurdum ” action. Why not have cars continuously occupy every legal parking space on the east side of Ocean Avenue until a proper Ordinance is enacted to prevent it.
Absurd, you say. Of course.
Legal? Currently is.
To Ocean Lover: It is far more than just that one VW. That is why, at the very least, there needs to be time-limited parking along Ocean Avenue.
Don’t make me laugh about the parking enforcement car. There is a person that parks across the sidewalk on the 3rd block of Abbott Ave.— winter, summer, spring and fall; even when there are several parking spaces on the street. There is a driveway cut out but the garage is long gone; I assume into a room.
I’ve seen people in wheelchairs, walkers and baby carriages have to go into the street, since they can’t walk on the sidewalk! I have stopped the parking enforcement car several times to tell them…yet if you go by today, you’ll probably see a car parked across the sidewalk!
So much for parking enforcement.
I would like to see enforcement of vehicles moved from beach front spots they deem as permanent in the summer months. I live on the North End near the ocean. Last summer (and probably the summer before) there was a white VW van parked at the beachfront by the surfing beach all summer long.
The owner kept their beach equipment in it and used it as a beach locker. I have no idea where the owner stays during the season. This van never moved all season. I’m sure there are other vehicles like this as well, besides those of people going into AP who park in OG’s North End daily.
Can’t parking enforcement do something about this?
Carol, my comment was not meant to be taken seriously. But since you mention it, how many parking spaces would that get? Then you start looking for more “greenways” to slice up. Before you know it, you have paved paradise.
Summer visitor demand for parking closer to the beach is insatiable, Even on the busiest summer days there are parking spaces available south of CLARK and west of PENNSYLVANIA. While on traffic duty on Ocean Ave for flea market events I see the same cars drive up and down Ocean Ave over and over nonetheless they are unwilling to park that far away.
I doubt there’s any business plan that would support a parking garage for OG even if it were legal; if so …present it to the Township Committee or as a comment. Many New Jersey communities have faced reality and instituted metered/permit parking out of necessity doing what was best for most residents notwithstanding objections of some.
Carol
We really need to ban together and challenge Neptune’s policies and make the necessary changes to get O.G. back on track: stop condos and enforce our master plan.
We the people can do it.
Waterseller: I happen to love the green spaces in OG. However, I think you could shave 3-5 feet off each side of Ocean Pathway without any serious loss of appearance or functionality. Sometimes you have to chose the lesser of two unhappy choices.
Gosh and Ogrover seem to be the only people who know about the RSIS. Sorry that Neptune Township disregards them when it comes to parking standards.
This is why we need to STOP condo’s in O.G. Neptune won’t as long as they keep getting all this revenue.
Look on the Pathway— how they allow a 4 story single family home when we are supposed to ne a 2 1/2 family home community.
Carol, why stop with “a small reduction” of the greenways? With all these people complaining about parking we could black top all the parks in OG and solve it once and for all. Then Paul could post a song about the problem, possibly Joni Mitchell’s Big yellow taxi with the line “paved paradise and put up a parking lot”.
The town ignores the RSIS rulings anyway so … diagonal parking the entire length of Main. Time restricted parking along the East side of Ocean along the boardwalk or (gasp) seasonal metered parking. Residential pemit parking on ALL streets West of Pathway. I also like the idea of a commercial overnight parking vehicle ban in all residential areas.
I find it hard to believe that some sort of grant can’t be found somewhere that would help defray the cost of a serious unbiased parking survey. I’m sure there will be opposition to any plan, but to continue to do nothing or insist there isn’t a problem is just foolish.
None of these comments propose a solution to bring more parking spaces to the Grove — most are just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Where could more parking be found?
– Broadway could have parking on both sides of each lane with a small reduction in the central greenway
– Ocean Pathway could have angled parking on both sides of the street if we widened the lanes and narrowed the greenway
– Forget the condo development at the north end, build a parking garage instead on the entire block. Leave some space for retail on the boardwalk side.
– Require any new-construction condo development to have a two-story underground garage that would reserve at least 1/2 of the spaces for non-condo resident monthly rentals. (If this had been done with the Surf Ave Hotel, think of the spaces it would have created!
– Build a parking garage at the south end.
I’m donning my bike helmet to protect me from the blows I’m sure will be directed at me — none of these options are great, but every one of them is better than metered/permit parking.
Jason, you seem to forget that OG is not a municipality but part of Neptune. OG can’t install meters, tow or write tickets.
I would like to see where the state says you’re entitled to a spot in front of your house, because that is in opposition to the law governing public rights of way and roads
Every street is a residential street in Ocean Grove. Meters on the north and west, permits on the south and east
Other shore towns with parking meters have a much higher percentage of homes with driveways and/or garages. Parking meters on Main or the beachfront would only serve to drive people to park on the residential streets.
Stir the pot. Not to repeat myself as you feel I do, but Mary Beth really needs input.
I gave a copy of Cape May’s Zoning Regulations for parking to Neptune Twp,OGHOA,Committeeman Bishop, and other. Simply stated, the ordinance states that if you qualify for parking in front of your home,a space would be given. But Neptune Twp ignores the state’s parking standards that would relieve the parking burden in town.
The state also says that a single family homeowner is entitled to one parking space in front of their home—case closed.
I’m very happy that we are revisiting the parking issue. Leaving the situation as is does not seem to be a viable option at this point. Shore town or not, the current situation makes it difficult and possibly unsafe for residents to double park to unload small children, the elderly, or the physically challenged. Walking from wherever one is able to find parking is not always possible for some. In my opinion, residents’ parking should be a priority over tourist parking.
The implementation of metered parking and resident permits seems like a fair and practical potential solution to this problem. One comment above outlined a permit plan costing $200/year. It is not clear what the fee would need to be to cover the costs associated with parking enforcement, however, if we use the hypothetical $200 this only comes out to about $.55 per day (you can’t even get a cup of coffee for that price these days). I am assuming that meters would pay for themselves. Even if each household was only eligible for one permit, it would make a meaningful difference. It seems worth consulting with officials in other towns about the pros and cons, as well as actual costs and potential revenue, related to the above.”
When not in the Grove, I live in Princeton, NJ. At the Princeton Junction train station, which has 4 lots, they hired a guy to patrol and write tickets to those without permits. The person was retired from another job. He was given a covered scooter, deputized so he could write tickets, and off he went. I was told two years ago that they collect over $170,000 in fines each year — way more then enough to pay for the ticket writer.
If OG wanted to install meters and/or have permits, the enforcement would be self-funding and would not take resources from Neptune Twp. police. If towing of violaters was considered, OG could also bid that out and get a percentage of the towings revenue. The net of this is that OG could probably clear $200K after expenses and have a better parking situation for residents. That sounds like a win-win to me.
I don’t accept the argument that Ocean Grove is substantially different then any other Shore town of similar size. Avon is .4sq miles and they manage to have metered parking. Every town that has metered parking has regulated parking in front of residences. Some how these people manage fine.
This is the price one pays for living in a Shore town. No guaranteed parking near your house. I also don’t see the issue with parking further away. Society could use a little exercise
I live on Main, between Pilgrim and Central.. and I really wouldn’t appreciate or even be okay with having to pay for permits because of summer tourists.. Especially at those mentioned rates.. I knew moving here I would have to just accept the fact that in the summer parking will be difficult in front of my apartment building, which was once an old hotel.
Last summer was my first, and I honestly always found parking whether it was on Embury or Heck.. I mean meters would bring revenue for the town.. But the poor cop who has to be up and down Main Ave dealing with checking all those times, and its going to cause summer people to start parking on all the back streets, making it more cramped and difficult for the year around residents to find parking. Honestly it’s a summer/beach town; it’s just the nature of it.
I don’t agree on doing any of those ideas to try to control the parking.
“I’ve yet to hear a reasonable argument against seasonal metered parking; besides that people don’t like the look of traditional coin operated meters.”
Metermaid, do you not consider it a reasonable argument that seasonal metered parking on Ocean and Main will drive even more people to look for “free” parking on the side streets, making it that much more difficult for residents ever to find parking where they can leave their cars for extended periods? That’s why meters would need to be coupled with some kind of permit parking system to address resident parking needs. There simply is no comparable issue of resident parking in neighboring towns (where there is either ample side street parking, nearly universal driveways, or both).
Metermaid: Surely you’ve seen the setup in Asbury where there are no ugly meters.
I’ve yet to hear a reasonable argument against seasonal metered parking; besides that people don’t like the look of traditional coin operated meters.
Oh, Paul, you can just say it was me that said you were stirring the pot! Let’s be honest – who else on the Committee would say that to you?
Unfortunately, this is the last summer we will be running the beach shuttle from the train stations to various towns because not only is the grant running out, no one rides it. It just didn’t work.
As for parking permits, unfortunately, because of the number of multifamily units in the Grove, whether they be condos, houses or hotels converted to apartments, or whatever the case, the amount of cars registered to the Grove versus the amount of parking spaces available is a very high ratio, like 4:1, and that’s in the winter. With seasonal visitors, it jumps to 7:1 or 8:1. How do you decide who gets them? We do have a parking enforcement detail now, but on a hot sunny July weekend, we could spend 48 hours doing nothing but ticketing. It simply will not work.
I read these posts with great interest, because one of these days, we will find a formula for relief, and I have a strong suspicion that the solution will come from one of these conversations . . . even if they do stir the pot!
RIDICULOUS is giving free parking on every street in Ocean Grove including on beach front Ocean Ave., even in the summer.
Proposal:
There should be 2 permits per household.
Signs will say “Resident parking only from 4 p.m. to 6 p.m.” 7 days per week. Only renters and residents can park between 4 to 6 p.m. This means that visitors have to move their cars, thus providing residents and B and B guests a chance to claim open spots. Violators without permits will be ticketed and towed. No permits if you have a driveway.
Main Avenue from Ocean west to Fireman’s Park: same as now
B and B’s can issue period permits—one vehicle per customer.
Rutgers University New Brunswick Campus has 30,000 students flood the area seasonally, and the College Ave campus has Resident Parking only on side streets. It Works.
Township to hire part-timers to enforce violations.
These changes can be put into place immediately
Meter money collected would go to the Township (which would be the installer of meters on Township’s streets).
I like Happy2BinOG’s idea ($10 park in CMA lot). They need more $$ for their rebuild campaign anyway, right? And fill in those alleged ‘tunnels’ in the North End lot… and make another boatload of parking money! Also how about seasonal metered parking (May thru Sept) all along Ocean Ave, Main Ave, and every first beach block. Legit residents of those sections can be given a residential parking sticker so they will not penalized.
I know someone who lives on the first beach block of Webb that often parks in that lot (& buys the beach badge) when she can’t find a nearby spot.
I’m in the north end and see that It’s primarily a summer weekend issue. We do not move our car from 9am Saturday to 4pm Sunday, with a window of 10pm Saturday to 10am Sunday. One of the frustrating things to see is people parking in our neighborhood and then walking into Asbury Park.
Well the CMA should start charging! That is a clear and obvious source of revenue that they are ignoring. They already have kids sitting there, so why not have them collect some money while they are at it. None of the other towns give free parking with a beach pass.
It is the CMA that provides free parking on their lot with purchase of a beach badge.
I would like to know why OG feels the need to give free parking in the parking lot at the end of Broadway if you buy a beach pass. TO me, this is ridiculous. There should be a 10 dollar charge to park in that lot, which would generate a lot of revenue. I dont think that is too much to ask if you want to park less than 1 block from the beach!
I have another issue, I don’t have a driveway, but I would love to have a plug-in hybrid! I would pay $$ to have a spot in front of my house where I could plug in!!
This argument is like smacking ones head against the wall. There are two sides; the ones that want to make something work and the side that wants to complain but retain the status quo
I never see any issues in Belmar’s Main Street with businesses being affected by the presence of meters. I also see that Cape May, another community in which the whole town has been designated a Historical District, has no lack of visitors. THEY HAVE ARCADES ON THE BOARDWALK!
There is clearly no desire to do what needs to be done, Install meters seasonally.
Permit parking is the only way to relieve the parking woes in the North End. This would also stop the freeloaders who avoid the meters in Asbury.
(happens a lot more than you’d think)
Secondly, no commercial vehicle parking in town outside of designated areas, mainly limited to the commercial area. Oversized vans and trucks laden with ladders and paraphernalia generally use much more room to park.
Thirdly, time limited parking along Ocean Ave. A simple chalk mark on a tire placed by the passing parking enforcement car lets them know how long they’ve been there. This would also be a way of opening up parking spots for the Saturday night concerts and Sunday morning services.
No offense to the people who live north of Main, but i find parking on the State Streets (eg Pennsylvania) all the time in the winter. Just because the space isnt in front of your house doesn’t mean there is a problem in the winter. Even on Mount Zion and Mount Carmel have parking
I agree there are issues in the summer
Fun. I love debating parking. My view is there are basically two choices: do nothing and deal with what we all have dealt with and benefited from (depending on who we are). Now there is “free” parking that is impossible to find in the summer season. So if you are a driveway-less resident you basically have to park your car from Friday until Sunday night. If you are a visitor, the non-existent parking is “free” or you can take a shuttle bus from Clancy’s (I assume). Not a great status quo, but it is what it is.
Now if change is to come, in my view, a reasonable compromise that might both increase revenue and potentially ease some parking concerns is permit parking on the side streets,coupled with metered parking on Ocean and Main. This would give a little more certainty to residents (an equitable proposal might be one permit per home gratis and then a paid option for a second), would decrease some of the demand for parking (because it would either be restricted or paid everywhere), and would actually free up some beach and Main Ave. parking for day trippers.
But it’ll never happen.
Cheers.
Al