A gaggle of Princeton coeds at Nassau Gate. April, 2015. Paul Goldfinger photo © Click to enlarge.
By Paul Goldfinger, Editor @Blogfinger. Re-post from 2023 because it was such a good topic. Read the comments to learn what’s what.
The last time we tried to bring up a controversial subject about women on Blogfinger, ie objectification of women in our society, the response from women in the BF audience was underwhelming. But maybe that topic was too abstract or just not relevant. The latter was my opinion.
Last week I was listening to Dennis Prager, a radio talk show host who likes to discuss cultural issues. He said that he met a bright young woman in her twenties doing security work in Israel.
He asked her if she were married, and she said, “No.” She gave the same reply when asked if she had a boyfriend.
Then he asked her, “Would you like to have a boyfriend?”
And she replied, “No, I would like to have a husband.”
I thought that was a fascinating reply and so did Prager. He and his audience had a lengthy discussion on the subject; once a week he has a “male/female hour” on his show.
Prager thought that few woman in America in that same demographic would reply the way the Israeli did because our college age women seem to want to “play the field” and delay commitment while they pursue careers.
Prager was critical of the American approach saying that it was flawed in terms of what’s best for society and what’s best for women, and especially because, according to him, the best time for a woman to find a husband is when she is in college.
A few days ago, the NY Times mentioned an article by Maureen Dowd where she interviewed many women working in Hollywood. One of the quotes interested me regarding our topic today. It is a quote by Amy Heckerling, a writer and director for the movies.
She said, “I can’t stand most of the movies marketed to women. They are all about finding guys and weddings, weddings, weddings. I don’t care about weddings.”
Then, I told a friend about Prager’s remarks , and he was incensed saying that Prager was being condescending and was clinging to old fashioned ways of viewing American women.
I thought that Prager was correct as far as college being a good time to “find a husband,” but, notwithstanding that observation, contemporary American women have different priorities and life-schedules than one or two generations ago.
So what do you think?
BILLIE HOLIDAY
Although I’m in a long distance one but we meet every month and I can so soo relate to this
It wasn’t just the “girls’ schools” that had restrictions in the mid-1960s. At Penn
State, all dorms were single sex and women were subject to a curfew. Because it was considered more important for men to be educated, female enrollment was limited by a higher GPA for admission. This resulted in a gender ratio of 3:1, M/F.
Given divorce and the stagnation or even decline of male wages over the years, women frequently worked outside the home. The need to educate children and its increasing cost was another matter. Of course, there is also a decline in the number of children in advanced countries as in Europe and particularly Japan. Schools, colleges, small towns, and train lines serving these have all disappeared because of population decline.
RRS: Thank you. I appreciate spelling corrections. When I was a college biology major I cut the class which covered sowing wild oats. But the next day they had the lab, and I was present.
I bet you didn’t have “sowing” oats on your spelling bee. You probably went to one of those up-tight sixties girls schools with curfews and guards at the door of the dorm.
Eileen’s dorm at GWU was all girls and they did have a curfew and a guard. I never did see her room. They wouldn’t even let her father go up.
She didn’t go to college to find a husband; We met before that when she was still in high school, so she went to high school to find a husband.
Blogfinger: All true except one thing: they want to sow wild oats not sew them! Your friend, the spelling bee winner!
RRS Thank you for your informative comment. But there is something you left out: Today’s women seek sex, fun, playing the field, and wild times just like men. Maybe being a “friend with benefits” is a woman’s idea sometimes. Have you heard how young women talk these days ? It is a side effect of the feminist movement.
So for many such women maybe they don’t want to be tied down to one person because “Girls just want to have fun.” (Cyndi Lauper.)
After all, college for many men and women is a time to “sow wild oats” and not find a spouse or a “steady.”
You leave home, find freedom in college, read a little Chaucer and Hemingway, and then it’s booze, sex, drugs and rock’n roll for all.
I think the young lady may be finding that the men in her life want to be “friends with benefits” or cohabit and would not even consider the possibility of an engagement and marriage down the road. What I think she wants is a man who is not commitment-phobic and would be open to the possibility of marriage if the relationship blossomed.
As a woman, there comes a time when that biological clock is ticking ( assuming you want children ) and you simply can’t invest time in a relationship where your partner would not even consider the possibility of marriage. It’s the dreaded “where is this relationship headed” question.
My personal theory is that if your parents had a happy marriage, you are more likely to regard marriage as positive and be interested in finding a mate and settling down. If your parents divorced and particularly if they had a bitter, contentious divorce, you are likely to be apprehensive about marriage and either delay marriage or not marry at all.
Second, it is my understanding that women outnumber men in college. More women are pursuing lucrative careers and can look forward to higher wages. Perhaps that means they have less incentive to marry in order to achieve financial security. If a single woman desires children, there is far less stigma attached to becoming a single mother than was the case previously and surrogacy is becoming a very real option.
I read that researchers estimate that approximately 40% of first marriages end in divorce—a rather sobering statistic but down from years past when it was about 50%.
I understand what you’re saying about living together as that is another angle to look at re: potential decreased divorce rates, etc…and let’s not forget destiny.
Some types of love cannot be denied, no matter what our values are made of or what cultural beliefs we have. Love can smack a ‘contemporary’ young generation college woman right in the face and lead her down the path of finding a husband, without ever even looking. We can sit here all day and look at the possibilities and statistics, while there are always those cases of just Love – True Everlasting Love that will not only change our statistics, but change a woman’s path.
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Now, there seems to be more women than not – that either are focused on the education first or if they find love, simultaneously. Then they will juggle both: Love and an education. Women have been successful with juggling both for years now, while being Wives, Mothers, Teachers, Business Women and so on…I believe women know they can have it all, even if their first priority was gaining an education.
Women are smart to follow their mind and will power to earn an education and just as smart to follow their hearts – to let themselves feel Love, when Love finds them.
freakinghappy. I just want to point out that sometimes what seems to be common sense proves to be uncommon sense. When the “living together” scheme became commonplace in the US it was thought that living together would result in eventual marriage and less divorce, but, and I’m not an expert on this, I think that there was no advantage to living together as a way to predict the success of a marriage.
Yes, all makes perfect sense, to whom you ask. Two of my roommates were American citizens, but my Russian roommate was not a citizen. I do not know what her future consisted after college. However, my Italian roommate married the man she dated since her second semester. I believe her values were from the old country, in which her parents had guided her to follow.
To get an accurate statistic/answer, while asking women today what their priorities are in regards to finding a husband or/and an education while enrolled in college, there also must be a series of questions asked about their cultural beliefs, religious beliefs and what values they were raised with. I think we pretty much know where the answers will lean when asked these questions.
America is known to be a melting pot, with much diversity, so it would be difficult to construct a statistical study to sort out the answers. I believe most women in today’s younger generation are looking for an education first and love/husband comes second.
Perhaps, with this said – divorce rate will decrease, as age and wisdom will help guide women in selecting the right partner for life. I suppose that leads us to another blog post …
Several years ago I worked as a muralist primarily painting designs for children. The majority of my clients were doctor’s wives who had the same life story…met husband in college, got married, stayed home to raise children. I’m not knocking the lifestyle, it certainly was good for my business.
Perhaps your college roommates were not American citizens. If they were not, maybe their goal was to find a fast track to citizenship via an American husband. What better hunting ground than a coed college campus in the US.
Or if they were American citizens, then perhaps their attitude could be related to the values of parents born elsewhere. First generation American college women would likely have been affected by values from the old country while acquiring values from the new.
And finally, many true blue American women still aspire to a “career” as mother and wife, so while they seek an education, they also might think about marriage right after graduation. That was a pretty common sequence back in the fifties and sixties.
Thank you for your provocative comment.
I wonder if this survey was given to a variety of women. I bet more American women with parents who were born in America would answer differently than those women with parents who were born in foreign countries. I say this because of my experiences with past college roommates (20+ years ago).
My roommates parents were born in Russia, Peru and Italy. I found it unbelievable that both their own college goal and their parents’ college goal was not to gain an education, but rather it was to find a husband.
I felt sorry for them, as they had far more pressure on their shoulders than the pressure on mine, as my worries included juggling class studies, while their worries included finding a man who would fill the role as their provider and partner for the rest of their lives.
I cringed at the thought of juggling their daily tasks…shower, dress and put makeup on for possibly meeting future husband, … The pressure alone would cause me to drop out.
Ladies……..imagine not having YOUR OWN Thanksgiving in your own home, husband, maybe a kid or two, maybe even parents around your table at this holiday.
You can’t imagine it until it hits you like a ton of bricks, like what I have done with my life by not finding someone.
Good luck you single ladies, good luck! Oh……..that goes for men too…………
Cher: Thank you for the spelling correction, but do you have anything to say about our “Changing Times” subject?
The esteemed director you mentioned is actually Amy Heckerling who directed the two best teenage movies ever—-FAST TIMES AT RIDGEMONT HIGH and CLUELESS.