Wesley Lake. January, 2012. Paul Goldfinger photo. left click
To the Editor:
Re:
The quality of Wesley Lake is important to the home sales in OG. The lake and the lake houses are what potential buyers see when visiting upscale Cookman Ave. But if they see a sewer, while all of the OG beachfront is full of replenishment, how does this help the town’s image?
We have two beautiful bridges on Wesley Lake, one of the more photographed and publicized water resources in Neptune. But it keeps getting swept under the rug in favor of funds for the ocean waterfront. It seems very short-sighted to me. The crumbling walls, the rusted retainers, the chocolate color, the garbage. It is crazy that the ocean and boardwalk get 100 percent attention and our lake gets maybe 1 percent. Nuts.
Ian
January 1, 2014
I received an email back from Mr. Houghtaling the next day after emailing him.. The Wesley lake project will be “starting soon on a new retaining wall” The repairs will “go as far as the grant money will go” Also they” will be removing silt from the lake very soon”
Gosh, I don’t watch Good Day America but would surely check out a township channel.
Ken Almost all community cable channels are free. The township could supply the cameras and all that would be needed. The cable company could give the time span that the community would be aired.
Ken For what we pay in taxes we could have Good Day America commentate for us and Neptune is still getting away with it cheap. I know Neptune needs to get with the program or be left behind,or maybe they don’t want the exposure.
The problem with exposing oneself to communication via social media — it increases accountability by increasing knowledge sharing across large populations. Very few elected officials want accountability. If they can keep the communications limited to a one-on-one basis, you can tell each person what they want to hear and control the message in a very calibrated way.
My own view is that the elected officials of Neptune probably believe that OG is the part of Neptune that least needs help as it has the most affluent population and the town, while imperfect, is clean and safe (enough). Why would they want to expand any further effort/money there while the rest of Neptune is saddled with crumbling infrastructure, high crime, high unemployment, and weak schools? Why should they care if Wesley Lake is not pristine? A few derelict houses — that’s nothing when other parts of Neptune have derelict BLOCKS.
I believe that if OG wants to become a nicer town with better infrastructure, cleaner lakes, non-crumbling sidewalks, etc., then we will need to create our own “improvement district” similar to what certain parts of certain cities and towns have (e.g., the Grand Central Partnership” in Manhattan that maintains the blocks around Grand Central Station).
I am proposing a “neighborhood association.” My question is: Would each homeowner in OG be willing to pay $100 per year into a fund to finance improvements to our town? I know that I would do so if everyone else did too (and yes, I already donate to the CMA). This would only work if everyone would participate.
Ken: I wasn’t serious about a radio show. I said, “Take a clue from the mayors of New York…” meaning that even the holders of that lofty office have been willing to engage in one-to-one conversations with citizens.
As for Facebook and Twitter, I also am more or less clueless, but I was able to get all BF posts to be shown on Facebook, so it is a tool to help spread the word.
I bet those town fathers could get someone in their space craft to set them up on Facebook or Twitter.They could ask Committee-person Mary Beth Jahn who comments frequently on Facebook and NJ.com. Last year she had over 3,000 comments at NJ.com.
Especially Twitter could be a wonderful place for them to have brief conversations or make statements about public policy. Even Pres. Obama tweets once in a while. I’m not suggesting that they discuss somebody’s clogged toilet, but our Wesley Lake discussions could be effectively carried forward in that way if they don’t want to participate on BF.
Paul: To be more specific (which may or may not be user friendly) for info besides Blogfinger, I suggest using the email addresses provided above or regular mail to whomever, addressed to the Municipal Building.
Keeping in mind that each Committee person is also busy with a full time job in addition to their elected position; try by calling 732 988 5200 and the extension or utilizing the “tree”, press: 3 -for code+construction, 5-tax office, …..9- township committee…clerk’s office. Township professionals at all levels should be able to be reached during business hours.
RFPI forms are obtained at the Clerk’s office; be as specific as necessary so it will be forwarded to the proper department. Your receipt copy will be stamped with a date, allow 7-10 business days for a reply. You can phone or go directly to that dept and enquire if no answer is forthcoming.
As for radio, good luck with that one. Neptune does not have its own cable TV channel which some other municipalities do. I would consider that an unneeded expense.
And Facebook orTwitter? Not a user so ask someone else.
Hope this helps.
Ken: Isn’t two months delay a bit unreasonable? I know there are holidays, but surely the Committee could have approved the minutes by email, etc and moved them forward so the public could have seen them? I have been looking for them since after the Dec 23 meeting. The public has a need to know; that’s why newspapers don’t’ close for holidays. I bet there were staff working at the mother ship that could have made sure that we had the information.
And, regarding the recordings, didn’t Moses go to the mountain? How about posting those recordings on line without asking the citizens to go to town hall and figure out how to access those audio files?
And by the way BF readers, Ken is not an elected official. Instead he is a very knowledgeable citizen who is engaged in a public service by his comments. Blogfinger and Neptune Township would be lost without his contributions.
Ken: As a wise man from OG named Ken once said here, “Keep on trucking.'” —— Paul
OhGee, Township meeting minutes have to be approved by vote at a subsequent meeting, a common governmental procedure which allows members to make corrections before they become official.
Recordings of public meetings are available through the Clerk’s office.
There is no reason the Neptune Township website shouldn’t have the Township Meeting Minutes up within 48 hours of each meeting. Recordings of the meetings should also be available via the website for township residents to listen to. Maybe Ken can shed some light, but I didn’t even know such recordings were available to the public. How are they currently accessed?
The polluting of the Lake is obviously a large issue, with many simple causes. Trash from the streets obviously ends in the Lake. Step 1, get the police to actually get out of their cars, on one of the many patrols down Asbury and write a ticket. Patrol Lake Ave on foot and cite the transients that dump randomly. The condition of the bulkhead is now a public safety issue. Considering the traffic, foot and otherwise that goes though our neighbor because of the Auditorium and traffic patterns I don’t get the CMA’s lack of interest in these issues.
Hi Paul I have been down that road. I had email communication with Mary Beth and after asking a few sensitive questions on issues in the Grove I was told that I ask too many questions for someone whom doesn’t live here year round, and when I’m a year round resident she would answer all my questions.
My response was lower my taxes for part time residents until then I’ll ask all the questions I want; she just never responds anymore.
People in the Grove have no idea that we’re the highest paying taxes per square foot then anywhere in the country.
People in this town don’t stand up for themselves like in other communities. They think that if you put your head in the sand, and all problems will go away, and we have plenty of sand.
Thank you TCos for those email addresses. Everyone should write them into their contact lists. Then use them!
Eric J. Houghtaling x293 ehoughtaling@neptunetownship.org
Dr. Michael Brantley x294 mbrantley@neptunetownship.org
Mary Beth Jahn x292 mjahn@neptunetownship.org
J. Randy Bishop x290 rbishop@neptunetownship.org
Kevin McMillan x291 kmcmillan@neptunetownship.org
Thanks TCos. I plan to use these email addresses to make some inquiries, and so should the rest of you. Let’s see if any are willing to respond (other than Committeeman Houghtaling who will answer such overtures) We may discover that they all are receptive. —Paul @Blogfinger
The Wesley Lake Commission is odd. It never accomplishes a single act, but has meetings, gets funds, makes plans, year, after year, after year, before Sandy, after Sandy. But the lake is still just a hole of sewage. Very, very strange.
Ken: I don’t think your list would be user friendly for most people. Please be specific and tell us how to reach a specific committee person by phone or email. The idea is to be able to have a discussion/conversation whereby a citizen can talk about some issue with a Committee-person. Filling out OPRA forms, listening to recordings, lodging complaints or writing letters are not what I had in mind when I suggested better communication.
As for the minutes of the meetings, the Neptune web site says that no minutes have been posted since November 6.
The OGHOA meetings are fine except that only a small percent of Grovers show up and most don’t have the courage to stand up and engage the visitor in public conversation. Besides, our Committee members only appear there once in a blue moon, except for Eric Houghtaling who comes to each meeting. I did offer to post the information gleaned at OGHOA meetings as a way to help spread the news to those who don’t attend, but the OGHOA board declined my offer to share information.
I would love to have the contact information for all 5 committee persons, if they are willing to provide it. At least Blogfinger could report on their individual views, on or off the record.
As for “communication works both ways”—that is something that I totally agree about. In that regard, Neptune still has not agreed to place my blog link on their web site links page (Municipal Links) as they do for the Coaster and the APP. In addition, the OGHOA web site (OGHOA.org) is out of service (It says, “This account has been suspended”)
Over an acre of the NORTH END REDEVELOPMENT PLAN is in Wesley Lake.
The Ocean Grove North End Redevelopment Area as prepared by T&M Associates totals 5.60 Acres. This includes the Boardwalk .50 Acre, also Beach Ave, Lake Ave and a portion of Wesley Lake, 1.54 Acres, the lot on the beach .66 Acre, the gone garage area .92, and the pool area,1.98.
My personal preference for this North End area if it were to be developed would be to extend the street grid lay out [with necessary adjustments to fit in the irregular space] as exists on the blocks south to Ocean Pathway with the single family and other structures layout, so that it would fit in as if it were there all along.
Of course, all current Zoning, Code and Construction, and Historic District Ordinances would apply.
ken, the dreamer.
Paul,
It is hardly necessary to attend a bi-monthly evening meeting to get information. There are all sorts of ways to have questions answered about Neptune Township going-ons and policy issues besides attending. Phone calls, email, snail mail, filling out “Requests for Public Information” forms, (commonly referred to as OPRAs). asking to read the minutes of meetings, listening to the recordings of meetings.
Additionally, the status of a specific address concerning any Code or Construction violations, if real estate taxes are in arrears, open permits, open summonses and other public information will be provided upon written request. And maybe attend an OGHOA Sat morning monthly meeting that an official is scheduled to appear at. Even face to face if the opportunity presents itself.
Although not a user of Twitter n or Facebook I have made effective use of the above list at one time or another; sometimes persistence required.
ken
PS Communication works both ways. Inform the responsible Township Dept. if something is amiss. To make a complaint about a situation at a specific address there is even a “Complaint Form”
k.
Ken: This is not the first time that you and others have said that those who seek answers to questions about public policy need to come to the Township Committee meetings. But people lead busy lives that leave no room for that. The truth is that hardly any citizens attend those meetings. So your suggestion is not going to happen.
Blogfinger could be a good way for Neptune elected officials to communicate with the Ocean Grove public, but none of them do so voluntarily. I am open to ways that BF can help them disseminate information better. Maybe they all should have Facebook pages or Twitter accounts. Technology is the way to go to communicate better.
Take a clue from the mayors of New York who traditionally have found it helpful to go on the radio once per week and answer questions from callers.
Ken There are only 3 acres not 5.2 like Gannon says. How they came up with over five was they included the boardwalk, #4 Boardwalk, all of Green Acres property along the lake and part of the lake, and I forgot Beach Ave.
The whole redevelopment proposal is a sham.
A little mentioned tidbit is that a large part [over an acre] of the NORTH END REDEVELOPMENT PLAN AREA is in Wesley Lake.
If all the bids came in high then the work needed will cost that much and from there you throw out the low bid and go with the middle bid, as seen previously in the Grove. (Low bid doesn’t work—-e.g. Broadway) How would Neptune calculate the cost? They have no idea but they do know the bids are too high. Gee that sounds wonderful; this just gives Neptune more time to avoid spending for construction.
I would like to bring up a very important question to Neptune. In the 1900’s the lake tapered up to the properties and it looked Victorian with the row boats and all, (there are postcards showing this .) Why can’t we bring it back to how it was originally; the only reason they built the wall was to accommodate the hotel with more space. Look at how low the wall is in A.P.
We need to have Neptune remove the wall and taper the ground back to the original size; this also means the C.M. would lose some of their property.
I live one short (ain’t they all) street from Wesley Lake. Cross the foot bridges when the water level is low and you can see the huge amount of ‘things’ that have found their way into the lake, not to mention that aroma. From rusting shopping carts and bike frames to trash barrels,litter and Lord knows what else; it’s been a dumping ground for years.
Runoff is a huge pollution problem, but getting the aeration fountain working again would help with water quality somewhat. Hard to believe that people used to swim and go boating there. It is a ‘Privately Owned Green Acres’ area, whatever that means. At least that’s what the sign says. It seems Asbury Park has few problems getting monies for maintenance and beautification for their side, so why can’t Neptune get lessons in finding grant money from Asbury?
There are some truly lovely homes along the lake, but also those horribly neglected fire traps and a North End that looks like a war zone. Waiting for a high density development scheme that may or may not happen for another 10 or 20 years can’t be the best or only option. A solid, viable plan needs to be implemented and followed through to completion.
I’ve been here for over 10 years. Every year or so, politicians have announcements and press conferences about Wesley Lake, but in 10 years, pretty much nothing ever happens! I look at the old post cards and imagine what it could be!
A large WATERSHED area empties into Wesley Lake. Our local input pales in comparison to that volume of pollutants.
Oldtimer said it right. Filtration and aeration are key. If you just dredge the lake every five years you are not addressing the real problem. It’s the pollutants and silt flowing into the lake from Ocean Grove, Neptune and Asbury begin with. It doesn’t help that there is a gas station just feet away. Ever notice the suds on the far west “pollution pit” after a good rain? Establishing some kind of native aquatic vegetation would help, too. The lake will never be perfect, but anything to filter out the water over time will help.
Most of the questions raised in this thread have been answered or at least discussed at the Township Agenda meetings by the Committee and the professionals on the dais. The Open To The Public time at the end of each meeting is the perfect time to pose any questions on what you do not understand or wish to know more about. If a question cannot be answered on the spot, an answer is usually promised after it is investigated.
The original bids came in too high for the amount of money available. I think they got or were going to get bids that are affordable.
Here’s what I don’t get. The Asbury Park Sun ran an article on July 13, 2013 — that’s about 6 months ago — that was entitiled:
“Funds Secured for Lake Improvements: Work includes repair of Wesley Lake wall, dredging of Wesley and Fletcher lakes”
http://asburyparksun.com/funds-secured-for-lake-improvements/
What happened to the money? That’s the first question we should ask the new Mayor. Something stinks in Denmark…..
There is $250.000 from 3 years ago from a grant that hasn’t been used or has it been used elsewhere?
As far as investors, we don’t need them in O.G. We are supposed to be a single family community not a condo city like A.P. The condos we have is why we have so many parking problems. No other community in Jersey will allow you to build condos and not supply ONE parking spot for them; that is why we’re in such a mess. Needless to say Neptune is enjoying the revenue.
I’d like to know what standards–or lack of–allowed the swan boat business to get started on this murky mess.
Dredging is one important element. The lake also needs filtration and aeration. I guess the question is what standard needs to be met to pass EPA clean water standards? Also, there has been lots of talk but no action for at least the past 6 years about fixing up the lake. Since then, things have gotten much worse.
“Under discussion in Trenton” does not sound encouraging and should not be used as a (further) delaying tactic. If the lake were restored to its former glory, real estate values on surrounding property would increase and Neptune would ultimately be able to garner higher tax revenue.
Someone needs to step up to the plate.
Paul: The CMA owns all the land in OG, including the land that fronts the lake, and under the boardwalk . The CMA works very hard and closely with governmental officials to see that action is taken on some of their property, particularly the ocean-fronting property. With regard to their ocean property, they hire lawyers, and are very pro-active, commendably so.
But how pro-active are they with the lake property? I don’t think they are. I think the CMA should allocate some of their resources and governmental pull with regard to the lake. It is just frustrating to see the CMA organize endlessly for the oceanfront, but seemingly ignore the lake. Is it because the trustees have houses on the ocean, or some other reason? I am just wondering about the missed investment potential, and the CMA has the most resources and pull to make action happen.
The government has plans with regard to the lake. But with the Ocean, things are actually getting done. The damaged and polluted lake is just sitting there.
This is what Mayor Houghtaling had to say at that August 24 meeting: “The Wesley Lake dredging and wall repair project is on hold now because the funding is insufficient to do the job as it is currently designed. Sen. Jennifer Beck was present at the meeting, and she said that the issue of dredging lakes throughout the state is currently under discussion in Trenton.”
Here is a link to our entire article about that August 24, 2013 meeting:
http://blogfinger.net/2013/08/24/mayor-eric-houghtaling-covers-the-bases-at-the-oghoa-annual-breakfast-meeting/
Ian: Did you just move here from Kansas City? Neptune Township is responsible for roads, schools, sanitation, police, public works, and other services. You can say that the CMA should take an interest in Wesley Lake because they are property owners, as are all the other property owners in town. But why single them out? Why do you say that they are not interested? What would you have them do?
Mayor Eric Houghtaling spoke to the OGHOA just 4 months ago about plans to dredge both lakes and to fix the wall. Why don’t you call him and find out the facts.
Gosh; The CMA has an interest as property owners. I don’t know how they can can tolerate zero maintenance and zero improvements to this lake, while Neptune maintains and improves all kinds of roads, schools and other properties throughout the town, consistently and continually. There is huge investment right across the lake in AP, and OG can attract investors too. But not when we have this essentially abandoned sewer.
Ian The solution is very simple……The CMA receives no money because they are a religious organization….When the CMA turns the beach over to Neptune we will receive everything that the other towns receive….Case closed!
It’s time for the C.M. to turn it over as you can see they can’t do the job, and we all suffer as a community.So they have money for a boardwalk now, what happens if we get another storm this year; Neptune has no other option then to take over.
As you know A.P has done EVERYTHING through Grants.
Jason. You should contact Committeeman Michael Brantley who knows a lot about this subject. Also there is a group called Friends of Wesley Lake, but I don’t know if they are currently active. There are some individuals on the Asbury side who have a great deal of knowledge regarding the history of Wesley Lake’s problems which have been complicated; for example there are some serious environmental concerns about ground pollution.
If you look at the top right hand corner of this blog home page, there is a search box. Type in “Wesley lake” and scroll down to some Charles Layton articles about WL
What exactly has the Wesley Lake Commission done, say, in the past 18 months? This is a serious question — I’m really curious. Have they ever achieved anything significant? Who sits on this commission? Can we see the minutes of their meetings? Can we email the members and ask them for an accounting? Again, these are not intended as rhetorical questions. I am very distressed by the state of the lake and the seeming years of inaction.
The CMA should be involved in restoration efforts, and CMA people should be sitting on Wesley Lake Commision. The Asbury Park side has new fencing, art projects, promenades, lighting, grass-planting. Our side is Detroit.
The FEMA application is totally about Sandy damage to the beachfront. There is no option available to divert federal disaster funding to Wesley Lake. The CMA has taken on the responsibility to fix the beach front and the Great Auditorium roof because they own both properties.
But Wesley Lake and the OG wall is an issue for Neptune Township. Neptune has already received funding for the wall
What we need is the NTPD issuing citations if there is trash. And we need the CMA to make the beautification of the North End a priority. I sure hope part of the requested FEMA money was to get the lake cleaned up. That lake used to beautiful….what happened?
Longer term, the lake is highly polluted. Is that not an EPA issue? Can someone call the EPA and get them to issue a clean-up order? I’m sure it would fail a water quality test. Who is responsible for managing the lake — the water quality, removing the trash, the structural integrity anyway? Who is responsible for asking the EPA to come in and do a full evaluation of the lake? Is that not the CMA? C’mon guys, lets get it in gear. We need an involved CMA.
While Sandy has been a major distraction, most of these problems existed well before Sandy happened. And, PLEASE, don’t tell us that fixing the issues with the lake will be the responsibility of the North End redevelopers…..we have ben hearing that one for a decade. It will be another decade until any redevelopment happens, if ever. We are tired of waiting.
I agree 100%. Also, this entire side of town is litter galore. The apt. houses and residents trash is never in suitable containers, The vacant apt. house adjacent to Founders Park is a neglected eyesore. Time to organize.
Ian : You are right. If you look at O.G. from A.P. side, we look like the expensive ghetto…….
The Warrington, the Parkview,the wall haven’t been touched; they haven’t even picked up the debris along the wall.
It’s still sitting there with weeds growing out of the debris not to mention they received $250,000.00 from the state for Wesley lake that they never used—at least not for Wesley Lake.
The garbage that’s in the lake in the area is disgusting, not to mention the telephone pole and other lumber from #4 Boardwalk that exists.
I turned over and removed some of the lumber to keep the ducks from stepping on the rusty nails. Our town has gone to hell thanks to the existing committee people we have in office. Ask them what’s going on— they have some good excuses.
Bids to replace the wall were much higher than Neptune expected, so they rebid. When will the job be done?