Editor’s Note (2015) : Kevin Chambers is a long time Ocean Grover who has brought suit against Neptune Township regarding condominium projects in town.
Kevin has never, in the past, commented on Blogfinger, but he decided to join the discussion in 2011.
–This article was originally posted on BF in January 2011, but it is as relevant now as it was then. I think this 2011 post pretty much explains Kevin’s views in 2015, but perhaps we will hear from Kevin again now if he wants to bring us up to date with his views on zoning and parking in Ocean Grove.
—Note the interesting comments section from 2011 which can be added to now.
———Paul Goldfinger . Editor @Blogfinger
From Kevin Chambers of Ocean Grove:
The following is to address RSIS and parking in Ocean Grove:
In 1997 the State of New Jersey created the New Jersey Site Improvement Advisory Board that established “Residential Site Improvement Standards” (RSIS). RSIS is a part of the Municipal Land Use Law (MLUL) that governs all zoning in the state of New Jersey. Every town in the state, including Neptune, was mandated to amend its zoning to conform to RSIS.
Neptune, when amending its Land Development Ordinance in 2000, violated the MLUL and RSIS when it created the Historic District Oceanfront (HD-0) zone.
The Historic District of Ocean Grove, a section of Neptune, is the only development in the entire state, in which the township that governs it refuses to enforce RSIS.
The state wrote three letters informing Neptune that it is required by law to enforce RSIS. Neptune, seeking a way to circumvent the law, created an ordinance that prohibits driveways and curb cuts for Ocean Grove. Believing that the new ordinance gave Neptune the right to ignore RSIS, the Township continued permitting the conversion of unauthorized nonconforming apartments and hotels into condominiums without providing parking.
The Township, still in violation of RSIS, was then forced into seeking a waiver known as the “Special Area Standard” designation from the State. Neptune believed that the designation would permit the Board of Adjustment to continue its abuse of granting improper high density development within Ocean Grove, which in turn has lead to more car congestion on the streets.
The RSIS Board explained to Neptune’s representatives, that if Neptune enforced RSIS within Ocean Grove that it would prohibit improper high density uses that would in turn lessen the density of cars on the streets.
If Neptune acted responsibly and brought its zoning for Ocean Grove into conformity with the MLUL it then wouldn’t need to seek the designation from the state. The enforcement of RSIS would break the vicious cycle of permitting greater density in Ocean Grove at the expense and the detriment to Ocean Grove residents.
Even though all the committee members of the RSIS Board were well aware of Ocean Grove’s problems having visited Ocean Grove, the RSIS Board was forced to deny Neptune the “Special Area Standard” designation since Neptune’s zoning for Ocean Grove was and is in violation of the MLUL.
Even more troubling, Neptune was in violation of the “Open Public Meeting Act” when it sought the designation. Neptune is now required to hold open public meetings in which to provide a legitimate parking study in order to establish a need to seek a waiver from the state. Neptune must also bring Ocean Grove’s zoning into compliance with the MLUL before reappearing before the RSIS Board.
Solving Ocean Grove’s high density and over crowding of the streets doesn’t take “brainpower or innovation;” it only takes following the law, the very law that every Committee member in the state is sworn to uphold.
To this very day, the Township continues to be in violation of the MLUL and continues to refuse to enforce RSIS. Both were created and designed for the protection of every resident of the state, including the residents of Ocean Grove. Every resident of Ocean Grove should be leery of any township committee person who hinders or who refuses to demand their enforcement.
Kevin Chambers
Editor’s credit: Top photo was taken at the Historical Society of Ocean Grove Museum. Blogfinger photo
WW,
If it is truly a ‘Luxury Hotel”, they could provide valet service and park the cars off site (out of town?). Plus, based on my observations of Asbury Ave. in the summer, a lot of summer people are wheeling suitcases up and down the street, I assume to the train. Not that I actually believe it will happen, but there is the possibility they could use the valet model, maybe one spot out front for loading and unloading!
Simon .. What about the Warrington on lake, the Zoning board gave them permission for a 20 ROOM LUXURY HOTEL where are they parking. Only 1 person had a truck in the whole building before they were shut down for 47 violations.
Hi Smart gal……Thanks…. too bad the officials and the Camp Meeting don’t feel the same way…..
Some day there will be a 10 ft. fence around the Auditorium with a sign posted (this is all that’s left of Ocean Grove’s Historic town before it became a condo village and ran the locals out of town due to taxes and parking)
To Janice and Frank,
Are you the only ones with any sense? Apathy abounds. No one cares to get involved.
We’ve LOST our charming town to greed.
Ogrover — Two members of the Planning Board live in the Grove — Randy Bishop and Joe Krimko.
To Ken
I had 2 years ago given the OG Home Owners Assoc a copy of the ordinance, and nothing was done.
Charles, Right you are, the Master Plan rewrite needs to close legal loopholes used to condoize. A high density project planned for the SOUTH END LOT in the mid “80s was stopped cold only because a Broadway homeowner discovered illegalities that could not be overcome by the developers. (A great story.)
Yes.
Just a question. Does anyone on the Planning Board actually live in the Grove?
As some have noted, the township’s Master Plan contains language designed to limit condoization in OG. Since that plan is now in the process of being rewritten by the Neptune Planning Board, Grovers need to raise their voices on this issue. Blogfinger will try to keep everyone up to speed on the progress of the Master Plan rewrite, but as that rewrite proceeds Grovers will need to raise their voices. There will be ample opportunities to do this.
Michael: I guess you’re getting the gist of it. That is exactly what has been happening in town. Buy a B and B and convert it to condos. Look at H. Weck’s old B and B. How many condos are they allowing there? — maybe nine or so; and again no parking. How about the Park View on Seaview Ave? How many condos will they allow there? 12 to 15– again no parking. Geeee what a mess! We need to go to the state…..Again— can’t put 5 pounds of potatoes in a one pound bag.
If we had permit parking, wouldn’t it make it harder for B&Bs? Where would their guests park? Would this encourage more condo conversion and maybe more parking problems?
I had lunch this afternoon with a realtor friend who is based in Asbury Park. I described the blog discussions about parking issues, hotel to condo conversions, driveway and curb cutting ordinances and the post by Mr. Chambers. My friend took out his wonder phone and conjured up a page of commercial real estate listings to find no fewer than six Ocean Grove hotels for sale. He thought a few even had realistic list prices. One particularly large property is very close to my residence. If any were to sell in this admittedly depressed market, does it mean more condo conversions on the way? Food for thought.
Why haven’t more people backed up Frank and Kevin. There are major parking issues in town expecially since the North End parking has been closed for 4 years for no reason,except when the C.Meeting needs parking.
If Neptune has not followed there codes and ordinances then the state should step in,we depend on Neptune to follow all codes,ect.in keeping our community to a single family residence.
So many great comments about: parking (easy for some, tough for others), the North End (seems a bigger issue to those north of Main), condos (what could have been and what should be), permits?, etc…
I suggest a live discussion at an OGHOA Sat morning meeting might generate an actionable idea or two on these. See you there.
I’m a renter in OG, since last May. Love it here, wouldn’t like to be anywhere else on the shore. My experience parking over the summer… the only times I really had a problem parking was during the big events at the Auditorium. Any other day/night was fine. I can walk a few blocks if I need too. If anything I often wondered how the free transport from the Neptune middle school to here during events n such operated, and if they advertised it enough.
Ken: Yes I have been here over 30 years and I remember Buck’s places. If you think putting condos is the solution then you should of read the Master Plan for Ocean Grove which says that we are a single family community. When a B and B can no longer conform to codes and the building must come down, or if a building burns down, then single family homes should be built if the codes are to be enforced.
The Master Plan is not complicated— single family community. Is this being enforced ?
As for parking, the Sites Comm. stated to Neptune in 1999 that they were to conform to RSIS which, simply put, says that every home having the property is allowed to have a driveway and curb cut; every new construction is to supply parking. Is this being enforced? NO!
Imagine if Buck’s places had come down and single family homes were built with parking behind and a yard for each…..Far fetched? Just look across the street on the first block starting from Chamber’s home down. But unfortunately more money and revenue can be made with condos, and If we don’t wake up, we will be a condo community like Long Branch.
Do you really like the way the 22 condo’s conform to the area? Didn’t think so; like the Italian Gothic structure we have on Ocean Ave. If you feel the 22 condo’s don’t need parking then why does the north end plan have to supply parking? It would be a mess, wouldn’t it?
Just to make a note regarding parking permits. That’s the way to go— there are no other solutions. Look at the mess created on Broadway when they added spaces.
What we are getting: Higher density, less parking, and no RSIS parking standards being enforced.
Attention! Owners of potential multiple family dwellings! Do not convert them to condos! Do not sell 10 condos for $400M each to make $4MM!
Sell them as ONE (FABULOUS) single family home for $5MM! (Think of what you could do with the place.)
Parking problems? …solved. 😉
Blogfinger, I do not recall how many rooms were in the 2 hotels,at least more than 30. That info is likely available from the conversion application. Hotel “guests” is not the accurate term. They were an assorted group (parolees, sec. 8s, etc…)whose paper registration was illegally transferred back and forth between the two hotels to avoid the limits a “guest” is allowed to stay. Authorities were compiling complaints and found “guests” used the hotel as their address, quite illegal ,but when a code inspection found a body in a basement room, the end was near. Please understand Buck’s operation was a years and years long mess before the community (and especially the OGHOA) pressured the Township and other authorities to act.
Having lived in a condo in urban Hudson County, I witnessed firsthand the parking congestion issues, which could very well happen at the “nightmare to come” North End development.
Even with underground garage parking spaces (e.g., one space alotted per condo owner), condo residents with more than one car parked on the street. In addition, some condo owners often parked on the street during the day rather than use the underground parking lot. Why? Because even with limited alternate street parking and other challenges , it was often easier/faster to park on the street, especially if one was going to take the car out a few times a day. Nearby single-family home owners, many of whom did not have driveways, weren’t pleased to say the least! The implications for OG are alarming in my opinion.
Actually, there were three buidlings on Ocean Pathway that were converted to condominiums, the Shelburne and Stokes Hall Hotels plus the Sea Mist which was a smaller rooming house on the next lot to the east. I’ve lived near there for the last eleven years and can report that some of the residents of those buildings did own cars. I would say six or seven vehicles were parked on the streets from those three buildings, including the two driven by the owners. There was a single story garage and accompanying driveways in back of the Shelburne on McClintock Street. Those driveways are now gone. There will be two new public parking spaces once construction is completed and the dumpster is removed for good.
The parking permit idea is somewhat interesting. I’m not really sure how that would work. I don’t imagine the Camp Meeting Association would have a favorable opinion.
Personally, I’ve never had a problem parking in town and I first drove here under my own steam in 1966 when I was still in high school. Last summer, I did drive into town twice on a Saturday evening around seven. I knew not to bother driving to my neighborhood adjacent to the Auditorium but instead turned south off Main Avenue and easily found parking near St. Paul’s. I grew up in Manhattan and have parked on the street there for years so I have a slightly different idea of parking than most of my wonderful neighbors who are used to attached garages and driveways at their primary homes!
Blogfinger, “….given a pass”? The overwhelming relief was so great I thought a statue of Jack might be erected next to Stokes.
Ken : This is a fascinating insight. Perhaps the situation with Mrs. Buck’s buildings required giving the developer a pass, but today, the law should be enforced which requires that parking be supplied when condos are built. No exceptions should be allowed. Paul
Frank, If you have been here for over 30 years you must be aware of how many rooms were in Mrs. Buck’s two hotels on Ocean Pathway that have been converted into the 22 condos with no parking. Getting rid of Buck’s illegally operating problem hotels took years and cost the OGHOA thousands of dollars in legal fees defending its officers from her legal harrasment. Eventually a developer came to the rescue jumping through all the legal hoops and we have 22 condos on Ocean Pathway.
Maybe you would prefer Mrs Buck’s terrible problem hotel and her illegal “guests” still being there instead of the new condos? But I do not.
ken
Carol….I did your homework for you. Two years ago I had contacted a Cape May Zoning official.
I had explained that I was interested in their new zoning ordinance which allowed residents who had no place to park due to lack of driveways to purchase for $300.00 a parking space in front of their home.
Previously there had been parking meters in front of their homes, but with the new ordinance they removed the meters, and residents purchased parking for their home for a year. Ocean Grove has no parking meters, so parking should be free.
I had supplied the Home Owners Association and Neptune copies of the Cape May ordinance. The parking space would be treated the same as if it were a driveway. This works for residents not renters. Residents should have first choice since they pay the taxes. Residents in the Grove have no other option since they are being overwelmed with condos.
I remember different organizations trying fruitlessly to come up with a parking solution, but with no favorable results, Parking permits are the only solution.
I hope residents understand why it is so important for condos to supply parking and not overburden the streets leaving residents searching for parking. If you should go out of town on a Sat. night, try finding a parking spot with an event going on at the Auditorium.
Kevin Chambers seems to be one of the few with all his concerns of making O.G. a better town. Regarding parking, let’s make it VERY simple…you cannot put a gallon of water in a quart container.
Not enough parking has to tell you the DENSITY is overwelming for O.G. Neptune looks at Ocean Grove as the golden goose for Neptune.
Imagine the 22 condos on the Ocean Pathway with no parking. That’s at least 33 spaces minimum. Where do they go? Now imagine the North End condos requiring four times more parking spaces than the Pathway condos. Even If the North End developer provides 88 spaces for residents, their guests will use the streets. Where do they go? Then you have the people who park free at the north end who then go to the Asbury beach.
It’s time for the residents to band together, otherwise our town will be lost as a single family community. I’m here over 30 years and hate to see the town go down the tubes.
If the issue is parking permits, then I say yes, every town that has a parking problem has initiated a permitting process. Cambridge, & Northampton, MA, Berkeley,CA are among the ones I am most familiar with. I am willing to pay for a permit that guarantees that there are spots for taxpaying residents. (sorry renters).
Permit parking should be reserved for one side of the street (like the south side) while the opposite side is left for non permitted parking. Main St and the commercial areas can be left as open parking but we need to get relief from the mess created by the increasing population density.
Paul,
Kevin Chambers has not filed any lawsuits regarding the parking problems in Ocean Grove. His lawsuits pertain to condominium projects and a fire escape ordinance. He has been trying to stop the Township from building more condos in Ocean Grove. As Kevin indicated in his comments, the Township requested the meeting with the RSIS board because they had been told they must adhere to State Parking Standards. The notice for the meeting was published in the paper and open to the public. Kevin did not initiate the meeting. I don’t know who the individual is that Mary Beth Jahn is referring to about making complaints about parking and diagonal parking spaces. It was not Kevin Chambers.
I wonder how many new condos have been built or hotel-to-condo conversions have been done in Ocean Grove since 1997? Anyone know? RSIS requires a certain number of parking spaces (on or off street) based on the number of bedrooms per unit. Before any new construction, bedroom addition or hotel-to-condo conversion is approved, the Township was and is required by State law to determine if enough parking was and is available. They have not.
ogrover, Oh ye of little faith, Chambers has yet to win any lawsuits. Who says permit parking “isn’t/can’t/won’t happen”? Not I, and hopefully not you either.
Ok, I now know I am totally out of my league, I surrender. Too much into too little. Federal vs. local— with courts involved, oh joy! Short of paving green spaces or filling in the lakes, there is no more room for parking. The only thing left is to limit the number of vehicles with access to the town and that isn’t/can’t/won’t happen either. So, I will just sit back, put away the keyboard, and watch the threads from now on and try to make sense of it all.
Sounds like there may be some hope, after all! While we love the winter here when parking, outside of record snowfalls, is easy breezy, we can already feel our shoulders tighten up from stress thinking about trying to park near our home on the 2nd beach block of Main Ave.
Kevin, Now that you have our attention, would you care to comment on the Permit Parking issue?
ken