To The Editor
I am joining this conversation a little late, however, I have two things to add:
1) I have never thought of the “urns” as urns. I always thought of them as “planters” or “flower pots”.
2) I disagree with Sunday morning beach closings. I wish this was discussed more in. I cannot understand why it continues. Obviously, it is tied to Christian Church worship and it is wrong to make such a restriction to this “public” facility.
Link: Blogfinger article about the urns on the boardwalk
DAVID KENNEY
Ocean Grove, NJ, July 29, 2015.
DIANA KRALL:
Hi Local, You can’t walk on to the beach on Sunday mornings because there are chains across the entryways. There is also someone sitting at the entrance so you can’t enter. I love Ocean Grove for its charm and beauty. I don’t think opening the beach on Sunday mornings would diminish either.
I like the flower pots, (wish they were full of flowers). I love the benches and markers on them. I want the beaches open earlier on Sundays: (how about a compromise and say 10 am?) I love Ocean Grove. I hate white cotten socks on anyone! I hate the fence between OG and BB. Looks very prison-like.
If you walk onto the Ocean Grove beach on Sunday morning, does anyone stop you? I’m never up there that early. What if you walk on from Bradley Beach or Asbury?
Joe: You can’t be serious. Does the Constitution spell out every law that governs our lives? I will not attempt to play games with you. This is what Wiki says:
“Separation of church and state (sometimes “wall of separation between church and state”) is a phrase used by Thomas Jefferson and others expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.”
You are correct that the CMA has “control” over the boardwalk and beach, but they do not own the beach or any part of the ocean. If they want to put a car dealership on the boardwalk, they need to get permission from the DEP.
DT: if you can show me where in the US constitution it says that there is a separation of church and state, I’ll eat my boot.
The boardwalk is open, the beach belongs to the CMA to the mean high water mark, which they have the right to control access to.
If you don’t like the “rules” of the town or the cross on the beach, or the urns and benches on the boardwalk, which all existed when you moved in, then don’t let the gates hit you in your butt on the way out! I am not a Methodist but I am Christian. Even if I were atheist, Jewish, or any other religious or non- religious determination, I would continue to respect those rules because I CHOSE to live here. I respect the rules because ultimately, I am a Lessee in this town called “Gods Square Mile.” Apparently, my Landlord is God. Or, in this case, the Methodist equivalent….let’s find something else to complain about.
DT: We love your expressing your dissident thinking (although we may or may not agree with your positions). Blogfinger is a safe place for all ideas.
This isn’t like other places. It might actually be a seed for the renewal of old-time Christianity. That place of goodness, peace, going to church, sexual modesty, charity, simplicity, kindness. It might be like that seed repository in Iceland. After all is said and done, a new seed will grow with new people seeking peace and goodness for them and they kids, including gay families.
Thank you Long Timer.
Kathleen: Ocean Grove is nowhere like it was in 1869 at its “inception.” And you are not the decider of other peoples’ time.. Perhaps you haven’t noticed the large secular population that is growing here every year.
Even the CMA pursues its religious mission and doesn’t seem to believe that everyone should join in. If you think that public memorials are “lovely” then you can place them on your own property.
And do you really believe that this is a “religious community” and knowing that when you move in disqualifies one from offering contrary opinions?
As for what makes OG such a “charming place” it is not the “rules” that determine the charm. Thank goodness you can fly a kite on Sunday in 2015.
I must admit, however, that having an eight year old mother must have been quite a remarkable thing back when.
By theSea: ” If you don’t like beach closings and urns, etc., move on.”
BTS: You would have enjoyed the Cultural Revolution where, if you had disagreeable ideas, you would be “asked” to leave your home.
Why don’t you just stick to the issues and act as if you live in a democracy, or maybe you are incapable of some real ideas.
Is there no one in Blogfingerland who would defend the freedom to have unpopular ideas?
If you don’t like the rules there are other beaches
Bravo, Kathleen!!
Perhaps beach badge fees should be half-price on Sundays. Why should the public pay full price for half of a beach day?
Wisher,well said
Doubting T. You’re clearly in the wrong town. Belmar is 3 towns south of here. OG is what it is. If you don’t like beach closings and urns, etc., move on. BTW, the Sunday morning beach closings help keep it sane here — as many chose not to come to OG, as they lose 1/4 of the weekend beach time.
Wisher: Might want to check that enthusiasm just a bit. The OGCMA is also the secretive group that stays in the shadows, plots and manipulates out of sight, never quite revealing its hand (e.g., their dealing with the North End debacle). Why they are like this is a mystery. Does the OGCMA live in fear of provoking leagal scruitny that could bring down the whole paradigm of their control? Or are they just out to perpetuate their control through invisible manipulations? Who knows. But — it is what it is and we all knew the deal when we chose to live here. So just grin and bear it.
There are positive nods by the CMA to religious history, and I think also, to the modern nature of religiosity in the United States. Owned by a church, Ocean Grove is not a dog caught between two fighting owners. It is its own glorious owner. (And doing a good job).
Ocean Grove may actually be a last bastion of the good old-time kind of Christianity, devoted to goodness and very simple things, like the usher processions on Sunday, bathing rules, planters that may seen funereal when one is in a certain mood, white cotton socks, civility, and a decent and hard-working example of pro-active activities devoted to peace and reconciliation .
It is also not an ageist community, instead, focused on the roots of the plant; helping all residents find peace in the beauty and simplicity of nature, the scream of fun, the warmth of service, and the feeling of activity in promoting prayer and meditation.
Good community. No need for change, no discrimination and no degradation of others of any kind. But the roots should not be cut. We are not, and will never, be like the rest of the Shore. We are the historical example. They follow US, we don’t follow them. Thank you CMA.
Doubting Thomas, You came to Ocean Grove knowing it’s a religious community and how things have been here from its inception.
Religious I am not, far from it. A boardwalk service or a cross on the beach doesn’t phase me in the least. Also, a couple hours of missed beach time isn’t going to hurt anyone.
I find both the memorial planters and benches a lovely way to remember loved ones lost. My mother and grandparents resided here during the depression and it was the happiest of times for them. Even after my eight year old mother was brought home by the police for flying a kite on the beach on Sunday.
All the rules and quirks are what makes Ocean Grove such a charming place and why folks either settle here or return time and time again.
This IS Ocean Grove! The very items/characteristics you mention among many others are what makes this town unique. Take them away and the flavor is gone for me. While I never would have survived the ways of the early settlers, I can and do savor and enjoy what is left of the earlier culture as I pass my days in the Grove.
I think I’ll get me some of that METHODIST PIE.
Maybe I’m a cultural Methodist?! OMGosh!
The boardwalk is NOT closed on Sunday mornings, just the beach. I wish it were open too. The Ocean Grove beach, which I think is owned by the CMA, is owned by them down to the waterline. They make the rules. As long as the rules are equal for everyone, we really can’t complain. The Neptune Library doesn’t open on Sunday mornings either!
I think the urns and benches are donated/paid for by the people with the messages, just like the bricks at Citi Field in NY. I really don’t see the problem with them. What should they do, up the beach badge fees to pay for them?
The Camp Meeting Association by federal regulation for so-called non-profits is required to have one “public” meeting per year. It is held on Labor Day and the agenda is filled with time-consuming administrative reports and expressions of appreciation to its multitude of volunteers. Our landlord should also make time on that “controlled ” agenda to deal with the community’s issues (i.e. North End, boardwalk, Sunday beach hours, etc..) as expressed by its “tenants.”
David: When the CMA was petitioning FEMA to give them federal funds to rebuild the boardwalk, they argued that the boardwalk was a public thoroughfare. FEMA finally bought that argument. Therefore, the boardwalk should be treated as a public space.
Church and state should be separate, so there should be no religious services there, including the Pavilion. Separation of church and state is a basic principle in our democracy.
In addition there should be no personal memorials to the dead on the boardwalk. It makes no difference if you call an urn a planter or if you call a rose a marigold; once you stick a memorial message on the planter/urn, it becomes inappropriate for a public recreational area which is what the boardwalk and the beach are. The only exception would be to honor someone that we celebrate as a community, such as the fountain in Asbury Park’s Library Square Park which recalls the life of a former mayor in that town.
The beach is also a public place—owned by the people of New Jersey. There should be no crosses on the beach, and there should be no Sunday morning beach closures. This is 2015, not 1870.