Tuesday, February 11, 2014. Ocean Grove, NJ.
On Feb. 9, we received a “warning about a scam” from an Ocean Grover, Mr. Robert Burns, who became alarmed when two young men came onto his porch, knocked loudly on his door, and identified themselves as utility employees. They asked to see the homeowner’s utility bill. He refused. The police were called. We posted Mr. Burns letter to the editor.
Here is a link to that post, including a comment today from Committeewoman Mary Beth Jahn about what to do when confronted with a similar situation.
Today we received another comment—this time from Diane, an Ocean Grover. She complained that the race of the suspected scammer was mentioned in Mr. Burns’ letter and then posted on Blogfinger. She believes that mentioning his race is not necessary and just promotes suspicion of African-Americans who come to Ocean Grove. Here is Diane’s comment:
“Thank you all for the warning. I do not mean to cause offense, but a scam is important to note as a warning to others. It is not important to note the race of the people coming to one’s door, especially when a few sentences later this is linked with recent burglaries….being in the wrong place and up to something.
I sincerely appreciate Mr. Burns bringing this to light and understand his fear, but I am afraid that if some of my young, male, African American students were to walk in Ocean Grove they might likewise be misconstrued as being in the wrong place and up to no good — which would be a true shame.
Thank you, thank you for the caution and the warning; yes, the burglaries do lay the foundation for mistrust of people in the neighborhood, and scams are always disconcerting.”
What do you think of Diane’s criticism? We would especially like to hear from some commenters who are in law enforcement.
—Paul Goldfinger, Editor @Blogfinger
Joe: I think profiling is fearful to some groups because they believe that it singles them out inappropriately, but, as you say, if crime is coming from a particular direction, than profiling becomes a necessary and appropriate tool for police.
El Al Airlines depends heavily on profiling to prevent attacks on their planes. You can be sure that profiling is used in our airports also.
As far as our two Wesley Lake bridges are concerned, that is just a needed security measure for our circumstance in that neighborhood of Ocean Grove. It has nothing to do with race—only with geography.
Most of those new condos are empty.Insurance is too high because AP is a high crime area. It is hard to attact people to live in your town when a shooting makes the front page of the Press every week. I recall an article in one of the locals recently about this.
The description of a subject is just that. The color of their skin in no way implies anything about nor reflects on those of the same color any more than the color of a person’s shirt does.
Tom,
We all want to be safe. If I have been following the reports many of the the referenced break ins occured during the day. I still have not heard a hard fact argument that the mideval chaining of the gates is an effective crime deterrent.
Davis,
I worry more about my neighbors and my family than the people that bought into the “Asbury Dream”. I didn’t buy a condo there, I live here. With over forty break ins in a two month period I think we have enough on our plate. Once you have eased up on prevention you have resigned yourself to the alternative.
There, I have considered your opinion. I don’t agree with it.
Tom, AP and OG have changed a lot since the 90’s, AP is not the ghetto wasteland is was back then. We could try keeping them open for maybe July and August, see what happens? By the way, I live on Asbury near a bridge and have been here for years, I have not noticed many loud drunks coming back from AP.
Harsh. I have never been told I don’t deserve an opinion. Nothing has changed since then? How do the people in the new Condo’s on Asbury Park’s side survive? I respect your opinion Tom, I wish you could just consider someone else’s.
After 11 pm, I’d be very supportive of there being one nightime route into AP from the Grove (the baordwalk) and one route into Bradley (the boardwalk). Continue to lock the existing gates into AP and gate the road into Bradley. Further, I’d support having only one of the three exits onto 71 being open after 11 pm (lock the other two — we used to lock all three on Sunday!). Then we should have a security guard (not necessarily an actual policeman) and cameras at the three points of entry exit.
If we had such security, which would not be extreme for a community, we would probably knock crime down by 75% in OG. I’m very in favor of significantly more security in the Grove. I know my neighbors are too.
Ask Bill Bailey former NTPD and now OGCMA Director of Operations how much fun it was working as a decoy in that park before the gates went up.
If you weren’t here before the gates you don’t deserve an opinion.
Dear Editor,
You are comparing us to private communities, which if we are, we should give back any FEMA money.
If we couldn’t cross into Bradley Beach because of whatever reason they gave that wouldn’t cuase an issue?
I still contend that this is a most unusual thing between two public communties with shared history and cultures. It may not be the Berlin Wall, but it has it’s own symbolism just the same.
Thank you ladies and germs. —Paul
Wow. Jeez. Only on Blogfinger could comments start off about Racial profiling in OG and end up about senior citizen sex in Manchester. Isn’t Blogfinger great ? I think so.
Frank S.: The reason for that is two fold: First are the new-found erections (and therefore more sex) available to older men because of drugs like Viagra and because of penis pumps. Interestingly, Medicare won’t pay for the former (the most desirable option) but it will pay for the latter less coveted method—they work, but they suck.
And then there is the fact that seniors don’t worry about pregnancy, so they don’t use condoms, forgetting that condoms have another function other than making balloons for grandkids.
Blogfinger : I read somewhere that seniors have more STD’s then younger folks.
Frank S: Do the hookers in Seizure Village accept Medicare? Under the ACA they might be called “physician extenders.”
Why the big deal about no benches in Founders Park? Except for benches on Boardwalk, Main, and Auditorium Park, the local park benches are never even used. Boswell Park benches are never used.
Gated adult communities are false security. Crime happens within too. Recently there was a big prostitution bust in Leisure Village West which is a private gated adult community in Manchester.
Another thought about Wesley Lake bridge closings : Folks returning home late (after midnight) from a night out in Asbury often are inebriated and loud. This is disturbing to those living along Lake on Lake Ave. and to those living on Asbury Ave. whose properties are passed thru.
However if inebriated they should not be driving. Thus I propose a solution to bridge closing matter : Asbury Park restaurants/bars/clubs should run a shuttle service to & from OG from say midnight until say 3am. It would be a nice accomodation for their customers.
JW, I have lived in the Grove since 1995. I have had my garage broken into and my car. I have no idea who did it. It happened despite chains, etc.
I guess I may not be as experienced as some but I know this, good people and bad people are everywhere. I can go to any other community I can think off without these restrictions; only here do we lock our community to “outsiders”. I find it odd, sorry.
Editor’s note: Did you ever hear of gated communities? Take a ride to Monroe Township where the whole area seems to consist of those places. Or go to Seabrook Village in Tinton Falls. You cannot enter without stopping at a guard house. Of course those places are private, and the idea there is to manage entry and reduce crime. But no one in those towns complains about it.
The locking of those two bridges in Ocean Grove occurs only during the night and has been found to be a significant crime deterrent, especially for those who live in that part of town. It is a security measure that makes sense and is aimed only at criminals and not at any particular race or group of people.
It is not true that our “community is locked to outsiders.” Anyone can enter OG by car or on foot at any time, just not across those bridges at night.
You say that it is unusual and “odd”, and that is true. But you won’t say that it is racist. If it were discontinued, what do you think would be the benefit?
–Paul @Blogfinger
So why are there no benches in Founders Park? Not a nice place to sit? Asbury Park residents, regardless of Race don’t sit? And the gates, also promoting good relations with Asbury Park? And we in the Grove wonder why Asbury Park was slow to back us with FEMA.
Davis,
Just curious–were you living in OG in the early 90’s (pre-closing of the gates)? Just in case you weren’t. . .
Back in the day, long before the invention of easy-to-pocket mobile devices and tablets, larger things like TV’s were stolen and carried away.
I remember hearing residents of the north side of town pleading with the township committee and the police to do something about criminals having easy access and escape from the bridges. Hence the gates, along with a police trailer that used to be located by the bridge at Founders Park.
They still lock those two bridges across Wesley Lake. But why assume that it is racism? Asbury Park is a segregated city. Those bridges go to white neighborhoods where all the gourmet restaurants and design shops are located. Maybe the locks are to keep interior decorators out of the Grove.
But the most amazing thing that has just emerged on Blogfinger is the idea that no benches in the park is a way to keep black people out of the Grove. Can you picture two guys in the hood debating whether to visit OG based on a place to sit in Founders’ Park? Even the founders themselves had no place to sit in Founders’ Park.
We do have some crime in OG. Most towns have some crime. The NTPD is doing a professional job. There is no racism in Ocean Grove. I would venture to say that most Grovers would welcome more diversity including blacks, indians, atheists, teenagers, bloggers, and even ladies in red hats. But please—let’s lock out the ice cream guy who plays “Turkey in the Straw” incessantly.
If carrying a TV they might have a car. Chain the gates again? Maybe Piranhas in the Lake? Really people.
Chaining the bridge gates every night was highly controversial when instituted. An OGHOA meeting discussed it extensively and the Neptune Police Chief, as guest, pointed out that an immediate drop in break-ins and other problems had occurred (It was pointed out that a determined “perp” could still climb around the fence but that was really tough if carrying a stolen TV ).
“An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.” still applies.
the only thing wrong with “chaining the bridge” is that it is not as effective as I would like…but now that I have a better understanding of the level of police effectiveness…or should I say lack of effectiveness…it is the only deterrent we have
The police tell us to be more vigilant..but when we are as in this case..the police fail to follow through…sending scammers on their way..is hardly exemplary police work
I do not believe Mr. Burns meant any offense. However, I do agree to some extent with Diane. In fact, I think that the chaining of the bridge every evening over Wesley Lake and the lack of benches in Founders Park are a bit over the top. It doesn’t send a message that I agree with.
This was definitely NOT a case of racial profiling … An accurate description was given of an occurrence that took place, end of story. Why do people have to make a production out of nothing. Fat, short, blond, black, well-dressed denim-wearing, white, etc…are all descriptions, adjectives, whatever. The end … I could understand your concern if a call was made to the police station that was simply, ” I see 2 black guys walking down my block” but this was not the case. Stop being an alarmist and getting people riled up and turning this into a race issue … Geez!
I agree with “Out of Control”….the Neptune Police DID NOT DO THEIR JOB..it was sloppy..incomplete..and ..unprofessional
This type of police response might explain why there are increasing numbers of burglaries committed and unsolved in OG.
Race is legitimate characteristic to be used in describing a person. Imagine that this scam was perpetrated by two white males, or two asian males. How would you describe the criminals? I doubt you would start with height, weight and age.
I think this politically correct stuff has gotten out of control. I have seen many reports and numerous times have been asked to give descriptions of people. They always refer to a suspicious person as Caucasian,Hispanic, White, Asian, Black, Brown,female,male,age,height and weight.
What I am upset about is that these people, regardless of what color they are, were not brought in for questioning. All Neptune police did was talk to them and basically allow them to go to the next town and scam them
Slamming is against the law, and impersonating a worker from JCP&L is against the law. So why were they let go? That is the question that should be asked.
Mr. Burns gave us factual information, and I am one Ocean Grover that thanks him for that. I did not know what slamming was until I read this post.
Race has nothing to do with the scam. I could easily have 2 people of a different race knock on my door with the same scam. Now I am informed and I hope in the future residents don’t err on the side of political correctness and not report incidents like this.
Thank you Mr. Burns and thank you Mr. Blogfinger!
Bythesea. I think context is everything and I hope that is what you are talking about. If someone is walking down your street at night looking into the windows of every car, then you should call the police, and it is appropriate if they ask you for a thorough description, including skin color.
You say that your term “don’t belong” is not racially based. So I guess you are referring to suspicious behavior, and that would be what the NTPD means when they say, “If you see something, say something.” I hate to put words in your mouth, but you weren’t clear as to what you meant.
I agree that we should be equally suspicious of all races. That is, anyone who looks like they don’t belong.
Here I’m going out on a limb, but I believe that its pretty easy to spot folks who “don’t belong”. And I mean folks of all races. You can’t just tell when you see someone walk down the street. Maybe we might be wrong once in a while, but everyone should trust their instincts. I would call 911 if you even just have a mild suspicion. Even if the first 15 calls result in innocent people being questioned, it sends a message to the crimninals — we are watching…. I know that if the police stopped me and explained they were just checking so that OG would be safer, I would not mind one bit.
If you get out of your car in Beverly Hills, even if you are just standing right next to your car on the roadway, the police there will stop, they will get out of their car, they will politely ask to see your license, they will ask you what you are doing out on the street, and they will then sit in their car until you get in your ccar, and then they will follow you until you leave. All of that on the public roads.
The real question is… Is Diane right? Do people in our town make an assumption that someone is out of place if they are a black person walking alone on our streets?
I don’t think its necessarily racial profiling. If there is someone going around doing this, then you would want as many physical details possible. Skin color, hair, eyes , clothing, accents. etc
I, too, think that the description was merely factual and the race of the alleged scammers is merely one of many identifying characteristics. If one of them limped, would readers believe that the handicapped were being profiled?
Identifying characteristics are essential in police work. For example, gender, color of hair and eyes and, yes, skin color. Sometimes,especially in winter, all one sees is facial skin color. (We notice the writer did not object to identifying the potential scammer by gender.)
Give me a break! This an example of political correctness gone too far.
Mr. Burns was merely trying to give as accurate a description of the scammers as he could.
It seems to me Mr. Burns simply offered to us the same description of the men the police undoubtedly requested of him.
If they happened to be a few men taking a pleasant stroll down his block, then I assume he may have simply stated, “I saw a few guys walking down my street today.” In this case, he felt he was being scammed and offered a detailed description.
Frankly, I am suspicious of anyone I don’t know who walks up to my door in the middle of the winter when I normally don’t see anyone walking down my street without a mangy mutt!