Site of the North End project, looking north toward Asbury. Photo by Paul Goldfinger
By Charles Layton and Paul Goldfinger
We recently reported that the Camp Meeting Association hopes to conclude a redevelopment agreement with Neptune Township soon and then, in 2013, to break ground on its North End hotel and condominium project. Before that happens, we hope the Township officials and the citizens of Ocean Grove will give this project a sober, fresh look.
The area in question is the vacant space next to the boardwalk between Spray Avenue and Wesley Lake. The plan, as presently conceived, would allow for a five-story hotel with approximately 80 rooms, plus a condominium complex of more than 70 units, plus a few single-family homes.
If this is built, it will be the most massive construction project in Ocean Grove’s modern history. Its impact on all of us will be substantial, and that impact will begin at the opening gun, with the start of construction.
Try to visualize this. Ocean Grovers are already experiencing two much more modest construction projects — the replacement of the burned-out homes and hotel on Surf and Atlantic Avenues, and the drainage work on Broadway. Both those projects have brought us inconvenience, but they are trifling compared to what the North End will bring.
The North End project will likely disrupt just about all of Ocean Grove. It will mar our landscape with piles of construction materials, heavy equipment, mounds of excavated dirt, trash, traffic congestion and noise – everything that a construction site of that magnitude implies. These disturbances could persist for a very long time. And after all that grief, what will we have to show? Scores of new condominiums which Ocean Grove doesn’t need and which most Ocean Grovers almost certainly won’t like. And that’s before we even consider the impact on parking.
When this plan was hatched about five years ago, the land in question was zoned for single-family homes. The Neptune Township Master Plan explicitly prohibited condos there. The landowner – the Camp Meeting Association — got around that by having the area declared “in need of redevelopment,” a legal designation typically used to rescue blighted areas, slum properties and the like.
Although that designation solved the Camp Meeting’s zoning problem, the trade-off was that it gave the Neptune Township Committee the authority to guide the project, deciding such matters as its size, density, number of housing units, number of hotel rooms, amount of required off-street parking and so forth.
The Township Committee was originally friendly toward most everything the developers wanted to do. When Randy Bishop first became mayor in 2008, he succeeded in reducing the size of what had been proposed. However, Bishop was in a relatively weak position at that time, because some on the Township Committee seemed inclined to allow a truly massive development. On the night the Committee finally approved Bishop’s compromise plan, Bishop said he personally didn’t much like it but that he had been forced “to look for the middle ground.” In other words, it was the best deal he thought he could get.
That was then. Now, the Township Committee’s composition has changed. So, perhaps, has the mood of this community. (At a Home Owners meeting in June, Committeewoman Mary Beth Jahn got a rise from the audience when she spoke of a radical scaling back, including the total elimination of all the proposed condos.) It appears to us that three of the five current Committee members should be willing now to further reduce the size of this project. Those three would be Bishop, Jahn and Eric Houghtaling. As a majority, they have the power.
Leaders of the Ocean Grove Home Owners Association also appear to be of a mind to fight for a better deal. Last year the Home Owners’ standing committee on the North End made a set of very thoughtful suggestions, which the organization’s membership voted to approve.
One suggestion was that the Township should require that the hotel be built first, then the single-family homes, and then, if condos are to be built, they should come last. One fear is that the developer might build the condos first and then decide that, after all, the hotel isn’t feasible. Another fear is that if a large hotel is built, and if it then begins to lose money, the Camp Meeting might be impelled to convert it into yet more condos.
Another proposal by the Home Owners is that the condos should be built in blocks, and that each block of condos should be 75 percent sold before the next block could be started. This, it is argued, would help insure that we don’t end up with empty, partially-built structures, as has happened in Asbury Park.
The Home Owners’ position paper contains quite a few such ideas, intended to reduce adverse impacts on the town and avoid a potentially disastrous outcome. We suggest that everyone read this document.
Before the North End project can proceed, the developers and the Township Committee must negotiate a contract spelling out the details in considerable specificity. During these negotiations, everything is subject to reconsideration. Although the negotiations themselves will be conducted behind closed doors, their product will have to be made public and enacted into law before work can begin. So, eventually, there must be public input. The Home Owners position paper also suggests ways to make things more transparent on an on-going basis, such as having the Township publish on its website regular updates including the text of all reports on environmental impact, traffic impact, water table tests and the like.
We urge the people of Ocean Grove who care about preserving the charm, character and livability of this community to start paying attention to this process now. Attend the monthly Home Owners meetings and ask questions. Keep in touch with your Township Committee members. Be curious.
As Grovers come to understand the implications of this project, we hope they will push with all their might for a better – which is to say, much less massive – redevelopment plan.
NOTE: For an outline of basic facts about the North End plan, go here. And also here. To read the Home Owners’ position paper on the North End, go here.
The entire North End Redevelopment Plan is available on the Township’s website, but it is quite hard to find. Go here, then scroll way, way down and click on “Redevelopment Plan-OG North End.”
The largest long-term building project in the Grove, with the most proposed density in probably the least accessible area in town. Heavy equipment moving up and down Main and Ocean for years, not to mention even more parking nightmares during construction. If things like that don’t give one pause, I don’t know what will.
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I think this whole process of the North End Redevelopment has to be watched very carefully and how this is going to effect the whole town. Trucks, storage of materials/equipment, traffic flow, parking, the environment — we are just recovering from the horrors of the Broadway Drainage Project and the Ocean Grove Sewerage Authority Project and this is going to be a much bigger project with more impact on the whole town. Especially the North End area and the South End parking area, which is really the only storage/staging area left in the town. So please get involved and go to these township meetings and OGHOA meetings and be an active watchdog on this project. If this project is not done properly it has the potential to ruin this historic town. Who wants to visit a town or live in a town that is one big construction site for years? Also, please remember that this project will have an even greater impact on the current parking situation.
We all want something to be built in this area, but we want it to be appropriate for the town and the North End area. Also, while it is under construction, we would like it not to be totally disruptive to the whole town for a long period of time.
Go to meetings, get the details of the development, voice your opinion and make sure the project will be for the good of the town. Do we want to be overdeveloped, with lots of condos, or do we want Ocean Grove to be a very special, unique historical town that people want to visit and live in?
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is it possible for you to post a copy of the OG Homeowners position paper?
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All I can say to this editorial is “Amen.”
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We don’t need another hotel.
We don’t need more parking problems.
We don’t need empty, unaffordable condos (look at Asbury’s monsters).
We don’t need more traffic coming into town.
We don’t need messy construction for who knows how long.
‘Nuf said!
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Re “OG position paper” — Good idea. We’ve posted a link at the bottom of the story, which will take you to the HOA’s position paper.
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Has the CMA articulated their current position on what they want for the North End? Through what forum can we provide feedback to them?
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Blogfinger editors: Thank you for this editorial and all that you do to keep Ocean Grovers well informed. You are amazing. If there’s such a thing as a citizen’s award, you deserve it ten times over!
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Pleased to see you weigh in on this critical issue Blogfinger.
At a meeting of the OG Homeowners Association earlier this year, I raised
four important questions:
1.What will be the tax status of the four-types of proposed facilities–the hotel, the commercial retail enterprises, the one-family homes, and the condos?
(Obviously an income-producing hotel property should be taxed like similiar
township hotels.)
2. The township has historically not respected RSIS parking standards for single-family homes. Will it now?
3. Has anybody–federal, state, township–ever tested the water table? (Old timers remind us about that underground tunnel that ran to the beach.)
4. And lastly, who are the principals in the WAVE developers organization besides Mr. Gannon?
At the meeting, Randy Bishop responded from the floor that those issues
will be dealt with at forthcoming negotiations.
And it wouldn’t be a bad idea –in support of its overall concern for the Ocean
Grove community–if the OG Camp Meeting Association publicly released its
contract with WAVE that was approved last year by the OGCMA trustees.
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Having attended many of the the board of adjustment hearings for the Surf Avenue Condos I suggest that all people who have any vested interest here to get on the bandwagon NOW.
Attendence to those meeting was poor at best. We all know what those variances did to Surf Ave.(and hence to all who question “how such a monstrousty” could have been permitted)
Density issues were basically ignored. Parking issues were also ignored. What was the Twp. and the Committee thinking? It appears,once again,that condos are the key to the financial success of this project which will only benefit the developers and possibly Neptune Twp.
If Ocean Grovers don’t band together and attempt to gain some clear control of this project, it will change not only the character for which we all chose to be here, but will become a crowded,unattractive,busy city in our midst forever.
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Read this excellent editorial about scaling back the NE development in OG.
We are very fortunate to have such brilliant minds as Charles Layton and Dr.
Goldfinger providing this great public service.–jw
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This poem (below), by Aggravated Curmugeon, is a fanciful glimpse into the future. At Blogfinger we will classify it as “short fiction,” so keep that in mind if you plan to comment on it. —PG
The Ocean Grove Camp Meeting A.
Opened a hotel one day
Rooms would be let to plentiful guests
Though whiskey and ale were forbidden
The Camp Meeting would hold
Conferences bold, for holiness, prayer, and redemption
Despite best intents
The guests they did get
Instead sampled the pleasures of Asbury
Now most guests were gay
As they wanted to play
In bars and musical venues
There was some modest success
But not enough guests
And with time the hotel was a failure
Money was lost at significant cost
And the plan was to convert to condos
Debts were accrued and taxes came due
As sales were most insufficient
The building lies fallow
While Committeemen bellow
With homeowners suffering powerless.
Editor’s note—- with all due respect to the poet Curmugeon, a final verse below by Paul @Blogfinger:
And try as they may
They can’t spin it away
A giant Dollar Store follows
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dog park? anyone?
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Good assumption Appleation about condo impact. Here are the facts:
Neptune Township benefits by new condo units individually taxed by the township.
Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Association benefits by each new condo paying the CMA a yearly ground rental at a percentage of the sale price with a contract that provides automatic yearly increases and eventually after initial years to the cost of living index.
The “township cozy” developers will make their profit on each unit.
And potential owners will have a maintenance fee for the eventual condo association.
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Let’s see, all the construction equipment should come up Main then left on New Jersey then over to the site…………This will avoid all the shopping areas and beach front.
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I suppose all that heavy epuipment can easily access the site by using that supersized street, Lake Ave. Oh wait …
Then again, I’m sure all the narrow one way cross streets with parking on both sides north of Main can handle heavy construction traffic. Oh wait …
I’m reminded of the lost man asking for directions and is told, “You can’t get there from here.”
As far as any committee coming up with and supervising a sensible plan, there is this;
We all know the saying
Which is true as well as witty
That a camel is horse
That was designed by a committee – Allan Sherman
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Right on Curmudgeon — it does seem unlikely that a hotel would succeed financially without a restaurant that served “whiskey.” Now the question is whether condos would then be approved. (Or is it a done deal already?)
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Personally I miss the old North End Hotel — the salt water pool and bath houses, and the tunnel. ps — I’m really not that much of an “old timer” — but I guess that depends on who’s doing the looking.
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Construction equipment would have to come up Broadway and then left on Ocean, as these are the wide streets (Main is too busy). South parking lot would be a staging area. A project like this will take 3-4 years to build from start to finish. This disruption factor on the blocks around the North End would be massive.
Instead, how about 8 Victorians on 1.5X lots and a grassy park with benches? Why do we need a maximum capacity build-out? Who’s side is the CMA on?
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Oldtimer, refer my previous comment.
The CMA might appear on its own side…more bucks annually.
For a bright OG future: retain current hotels and b&bs. No more
condos, but single-family homes.
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I.M.: So are you saying the CMA is motivated by what makes the most money for them rather than what is best for the town? If that’s true, the founders must be turning over in their graves. This is not the CMA I thought I knew.
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Agree-Just remember that variances on these structures also are an issue. Remember that JHP got height and size variances for their new homes on Ocean Pathway. Infiltration into the “Historic Flare” (which, by the way, is one reason for OG’s historic designation) has become a common occurance as well. CMA has approved these as well.
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I thought that Ocean Grove was originally “founded” as a real estate development with lots laid out and offered for lease. Subsequently a Camp Meeting started.
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Ken: You are mistaken. In 1867, Rev. William Osborne of New Jersey and his colleague Rev. John Inskip of New York called the first meeting of the “National Camp Meeting Association for the Promotion of Holiness.” They met in July of that year for ten days in Vineland, New Jersey. 10,000 people attended.
At that meeting, Inskip was elected president, and the group decided to dedicate itself to “the founding of holiness camp meetings.” Rev. Osborne was given the job of finding a suitable location along the Jersey shore. After “scouring” the NJ coast in 1868, Osborne found the current location of OG to be ideal. He liked the fact that there were no mosquitoes. He said that he didn’t want to pay for mosquitoes.
He gave the site the name “Ocean Grove.” In 1869, the “Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Association of the United Methodist Church” was established in New York City. One of their first orders of business was to acquire the parcels of land from 44 different land owners. The planned grid of streets, avenues, parks, etc was designed by the founders to provide an ideal situation for the people of Ocean Grove to live according to their precepts. They laid out the lots which were then “sold” to individuals. The early buyers of Ocean Grove lots were the members of the OG religious community. Their activities were acknowledged by a charter from the State of New Jersey.
Ref: “Holy Leisure—Recreation and Religion in God’s Square Mile” by Troy Messenger. 1999. University of Minnesota Press.
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Great editorial, thanks!
Has anyone considered using Lake Ave. in Asbury as a route for equipment and the Casino parking lot as the storage site? That would avoid congested OG residential streets, and I bet whoever owns the Casino parking lot would be thrilled at a 24-hr lease for some of their mostly empty parking spaces.
Not that I want to facilitate this project — I’d rather see a parking garage with ground-floor retail space.
And yes, please stop calling those of us who remember the North End tunnel “old timers.” I believe we are entering our prime!
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Editor Paul, Thank you the correction.
ken
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It’s sad. I think at this point it’s just about what “they” decide they want and how much we are going to resist it. It would be nice to just have one big carefully planned, wooded park. How nice would THAT be? Watching trees grow over the years? Park benches. Lots of flowers. Wildlife habitat. Naaaaaaaah. Condos!
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Has anyone considered video conf avail for these board of adjustment hearings so that more people in/out support of project can take part in meetings? With today’s technology it should not be a cost issue
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My idea for the north end was to create a Prayer Park. This would be in keeping with the CMA mission, but of course it wouldn’t generate the $$ the CMA-endorsed hotel is “supposed” to bring in. At least the ugly chain link fence is down for now. The whole situation stinks to high H if you catch my drift.
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As I’m one of the negotiators for the Township for this project, I’m legally restricted from saying anything other than what I have previously stated publicly: I oppose the redevelopment plan that was approved for a hotel and condos. I believe this project should be held to the existing zoning requirements of 12 single-family homes. I was the only Township Committee member to vote “no” on the redevelopment plan and I continue to hold that position. (If anyone needs copies of my public comments from the dais during this vote to fact-check me, file an OPRA request with Rick Cuttrell and ask for the audiotape.)
I don’t mind being the only person to vote “no,” because everyone pretty much knows I’m a huge pain in the patootie about things I don’t believe to be in the best interest of residents (also said from the dais and audio taped). This should be the first of some very spirited discussions. 🙂
And that is all I am legally able to say . . .
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Norm, to address your questions:
1.What will be the tax status of the four-types of proposed facilities–the hotel, the commercial retail enterprises, the one-family homes, and the condos?
(Obviously an income-producing hotel property should be taxed like similiar
township hotels.)
MBJ: The proposed hotel and condos would be taxable, just like other, similar projects, as they are not being used solely for religious purposes.
2. The township has historically not respected RSIS parking standards for single-family homes. Will it now?
MBJ: The Township Committee redevelopment plan that was passed was subject to the developers providing enough underground parking to accommodate the hotel guests and condo owners. No underground parking = no project. As for RSIS, we are awaiting the finalization of our exemption from RSIS standards, which will keep us from losing anywhere between 100-150 parking spots in the Grove.
3. Has anybody–federal, state, township–ever tested the water table? (Old timers remind us about that underground tunnel that ran to the beach.)
The CAFRA permit (Coastal Area Facilities Act, which is designed to prevent overdevelopment of the coastline and also deals with flood hazards) has not yet been issued by the DEP. The DEP will determine the water table level and determine if and how an underground parking facility should be constructed. If you Google “cafra nj requirements,” you can get more information. The “V-Zone,” or velocity zone, permit that deals with the proposed structures being able to resist storm-force winds, has already been approved by the DEP. (The CAFRA and V-Zone info is public information available from the DEP.)
4. And lastly, who are the principals in the WAVE developers organization besides Mr. Gannon?
MBJ: This is not the answer you want, but there is no legal requirement for the principals of the LLC to be disclosed. It is up to the owner and developer to decide whether to disclose this information as an act of good faith toward the community. The principals of the LLC are not listed in the organization papers in Trenton. The Township Committee could require this information to be disclosed to us as a condition of the agreement if we feel it is relevant, particularly if we feel it relates to ensuring whether the developer has the financial means to construct and complete the project on time and on budget, but they also have the right to request that the list of principals be kept confidential.
I hope this helps, Norm.
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Thank you for this information. I’d love to have the dates of the homeowner’s meetings published, as I will surely be attending. I live on Ocean Pathway, and the construction for the houses is already impossible…i.e. trucks dropping off construction material going the wrong way down OP just because it’s easier! This construction plan is terrible for our town.
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anon — to keep up with the Home Owners’ meeting announcements, you can check the organization’s website: http://www.oghoa.org. Also, Blogfinger regularly announces those meetings in advance.
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How about a private community pool and summer skate park? Probably cheaper to do and better revenues….
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The process that the Township Committee is relying on to develop the North End project should be withdrawn in its entirety.
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Thank you, I just signed up for their emails.
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The OGHOA holds its meetings on the fourth Saturday of each month (except Dec.) in the Community Room on Pilgrim Pathway at 10:00 a.m. Meetings are open to the public, all are welcome.
ken
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The Township Committee will be under enormous pressure to cave in to the developers of this project. Why should the voters in other sections of Neptune be looking for anything but ratables and tax revenues from this project? They don’t live here. I think any strategy to defeat this humongous debacle must focus on a reasonable target for tax revenues versus what the proposed project will generate. Trying to defeat it on it’s merits – size, scale, preservation, disruption, density, parking, living space, etc. – is a recipe for failure.
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I cannot understand how an underground garage at North End project will not flood in a storm. Heard on the news today that even the Grotto at Lourdes just flooded.
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