We have ended this poll on October 2, 2011. The question posed was whether the OG Homeowners Association should begin each meeting (as they have traditionally done) with a prayer.
We had 211 participants, the most on any prior Blogfinger poll. 39% voted yes; 58% voted no; 3% were unsure.
We have 22 comments which can still be read below.
“Those who are offended choose to be offended.”
Amen.
Fat Al (I seem to recall, the last time it was reported, that Roman Catholics, I’m one, were the largest religious grouping represented in Ocean Grove. I do not have the impression us RCs have much to say about what goes on here other than to vote at election time.)
I hope we can all unite behind the OGHOA to solve the common problems facing us. Uppermost in my mind is the Master Plan Revision which could impact us all. And two which will mainly affect residents north of Main Ave, namely the North End Redevelopment and, as Mayor McMillan mentioned, an increased parking problem due to Asbury Park initiating so many metered parking spaces.The HOA has been actively involved trying to ease any ill effects from these; we need member support, and if there is anybody or anything up there somewhere, we will take that help also.
ken.
Nancy, did you miss the words that preceded “past”? They were “current and”. Not sure what’s so controversial about that.
*Past* Methodist connections?
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have any great investment in getting rid of the prayer. I don’t particularly care what my money says, or if someone sings God Bless America, or if Congress starts its sessions with a prayer. Those are mostly historical carryovers, that don’t get me terribly exercised.
What bothers me is when the people in control, who literally own the town, demand that those of minority religions who choose to live here are the ones who must “tolerate” the demands of the majority that the majority religion be practiced publicly at obviously civic events. Tolerance is not a one-way street and frankly the tolerance that is needed (and in my view not very well reflected in a number of the comments on this thread) is tolerance by the majority — who control the town — for the feelings and rights of those who live alongside them.
Fat Al — I repeat that the U.S.Supreme Court has made pretty clear in its ruling that it is OK for Congress to start each session with a prayer. Some might believe that is not the way it should be but that is the way it is. I believe tolerating the beliefs of others, be they Christian, Jewish, Atheist, Muslim, Hindi, whatever, should come from ourselves and not be guided by the Supreme Court ruling.
ken
I am not religious and am a long-term resident of Ocean Grove. In response to those who think that leaving a prayer out of a civic homeowners meeting is akin to trying to change or take away their religion, I would point out that the intent behind the separation of civic and religious life is just the opposite. Including a prayer of one faith makes those who don’t share that faith feel uncomfortable, and lesser. So here, refraining from a Christian prayer would allow all homeowners, Christian or not, to feel free to come and air their issues and opinions without regard to their religion or lack thereof.
“Ocean Grove was founded as a Christian town where the Lord is to be honored. Why would anyone want to live here if they are not willing to respect this? I cannot imagine moving, let’s say to Deal, and then try to do amend the faith of the majority of residents of that town”
I take it that this is a not-so-thinly-veiled reference to the fact that there are many Jewish residents of Deal. I’ve never been to a town meeting in Deal, but I’d guess that there isn’t a Hebrew prayer that begins those meetings.
As a Jewish resident of Ocean Grove, I have great respect for its current and past Methodist connections. However, as I think the United States Supreme Court has made pretty clear, civic and religious functions are to be kept separate. I have never felt less than welcome in OG, but some of these comments have a “love it or leave it” kind of tone that is at odds with the Ocean Grove that I know.
“One Nation, Under God, Indvisible….”
“In God We Trust”
Seems to me if its good enough for the Pledge of Allegiance and the American Dollar, a prayer can be said at the beginning of each meeting. If you don’t like it or don’t agree, then just don’t participate in the prayer, but at least be respectful of others who do. What’s the big deal?
Amen to what Anonymous and Happy OG’er says!! I agree with everything that was said.
I do not understand why someone would want to move into a town that stands for something then try to change that. Why not live where what you want is already established?
OhGee–
The newcomers did not “Save” this town. They brought complete disregard and lack of understanding of what the Grove is about. They think it’s a “cute” town they wanted to buy in, but they do not respect serenity, manners, rules and regulations of living in the Grove (printed and available at the Camp Mtg. Assoc. office), such as: no construction on Sunday, being considerate of your neighbor, no commercialization in the first beach blocks, no high fences, etc., etc. Newcomers did not “save” this town– they have contributed to the ugly changes that have taken place. Some weekends in the summer are now a carnival-like atmosphere. But we “Grovers” will hold on and continue to implement what we can for the sake of serenity, historic beauty, and peaceful and spiritual living in the Grove.
Watered down because of newcomers? The newcomers SAVED this town.
I agree with those that ask that tradition be respected. It seems that every day OG is being asked to change what makes it so unique and wonderful. If you don’t want to pray or salute the flag prior to the meeting that is okay. Those that choose to will respect your decision and ask that you respect ours. I am a life long resident and I feel to much of what is truly Ocean Grove is getting watered down because of newcomers. Why can’t we just get along.
The last I heard, you didn’t have to believe in a god of any kind to own a home in Ocean Grove. Therefore, to have to pray to one before getting into a discussion about the home that you own in this town is superfluous to the purposes of the organization and not serving the pragmatic needs of many homeowners.
Michael: Did you ever bring up a subject because it is interesting and might shed some light on an 800 pound gorilla in a room? The lack of complaints in this situation does not disqualify a discussion.
A prayer is not appropriate for a civic organization. The tradition of opening with a prayer was started during a time when OG was still a Methodist community, and exclusively so. The Home Owners Association should now recognize the more diverse membership – if it is really an issue.
That said, if no one is complaining, why raise it at all?
Ocean Grove was founded as a Christian town where the Lord is to be honored. Why would anyone want to live here if they are not willing to respect this? I cannot imagine moving, let’s say to Deal, and then try to do amend the faith of the majority of residents of that town.
The OGHOA is a civic body, not a religious one. Meetings of a civic nature are not an appropriate place for prayer. People are always free to pray on their own, of course, but public civic meetings are meant to be secular.
please let us leave the traditions in Ocean Grove the same and stop trying to change a wonderful place into something else. What’s next????? is someone going to ask the town to remove the auditorium cross? Yes, this is God’s Square Mile and should remain so….leave the prayer alone….Jane
This is God’s Square Mile, ………Respect Should Be Given!
While opening each session of Congress with a prayer has not done much to improve its performance I feel the OGHOA should use any help the various ALMIGHTIES (whatever their religion) may provide. One never knows,
BTW… The SUPREME COURT has ruled it OK for Congress; so go with it HOA.
ken